5 ms·

As a bartender, I know that I will make more money from tips than any business owner would ever pay me, even if prices were raised 20+% and tipping was removed.

As a bartender, I know that I will make more money from tips than any business owner would ever pay me, even if prices were raised 20+% and tipping was removed. I’d rather risk a slow shift with less tips than work a job with a slightly higher hourly rate and no tips. I know there is a lot of bitching online about tips, and I agree that since COVID I’ve seen some absurd situations with asking for tips when the customer is essentially doing everything themselves, but most people tip fine.

lelandfe 4y ago
Question, how much to tip per drink to be a good patron? :)
- cammikebrown 4y ago
  A dollar is great!
  - maerF0x0 4y ago
    I've gotten poor treatment after giving 10% on a $18 drink before. Edit: so I guess I'd ask what is the approximate reference price for your "A dollar" comment? Cause if it's a $5 can of beer, vs a $20 cocktail those are very different tips.
    - cammikebrown 4y ago
      $18 cocktails are pretty expensive. I work at a brewery so I’m not used to that.
    - HEHENE 4y ago
      I have always understood the rule of thumb to be $1 for “poured” drinks (beer, wine, etc) and $2 for cocktails.
kahrl 4y ago
I think most complaints are coming from customers who don't want to have to consider the wellbeing and livelihood of underpaid employees, who require charity to survive. In most every transaction these days, customers are guilted into providing wages for essentially unpaid employees, and I'm sick of the mind games.
- FalconSensei 4y ago
  > don't want to have to consider the wellbeing and livelihood of underpaid employees For me, I want employees to be paid fairly by their employer, which would calculate how much an item/service should cost, instead of shifting this obligation to me. Examples: going to a new coffee shop. In MOST places (in Vancouver at least), they'll just call you to the counter to pick your order. But some will get it to you. But you only discover that after having paid. So how to tip? Ordering food for delivery. Giving X% of the order doesn't do, because you might have a cheaper order from a restaurant that's further away, or an expensive one 2 blocks from your place. And you don't know yet if the delivery person is going to be walking and take 30 mins to arrive, or bike. Or if they have a bunch of other deliveries on the way and the food will arrive cold. So... I would like very much to just be told: it costs X.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  100% agreement. I'd prefer to pay the true cost of my coffee, including reasonable living wage and benefits for the barista. I neither need nor desire the additional mental load of worrying about tips. And I don't love the implicit argument being made in the article... the wealthy should subsidize coffee consumption for the less-wealthy. If you can't afford the full cost of a carry-out latte, perhaps make your own coffee at home? Or, alternatively, maybe Ferrari should slash prices, ask the wealthy to donate money to make up the difference, and we can all drive super-cars?
yamazakiwi 4y ago
The problem starts when you work for a place that does not get good tips but heavily relies on them.
- cammikebrown 4y ago
  If that happened to me I’d try and look for work elsewhere, but I know it’s not that easy (especially if you don’t live in a city).
eatsyourtacos 4y ago
>but most people tip fine. We tip out of guilt. I literally freaking hate it, and I'm starting to tip less and less and prices go up. Why should I tip you to pour me a drink? You are literally just doing your job. I don't call up my customers for a tip when I release an update to their program. I don't send them invoices with a TIP line and show how much 15, 18, 20% of the invoice is so they can add on to it. Tipping culture is literally (1) employers paying their workers as little as possible and (2) preying on peoples emotions. It's also a completely asymmetric transaction. How do I know if you are receiving below minimum wage or minimum wage/more? How do I know if you are getting healthcare, or other benefits? Yet I'm supposed to just assume you are being paid almost zero and give as much of my money to you as I can otherwise I will feel guilty. I'm ranting in general obviously, not at you. But seriously people tip out of guilt and thinking people like you are not making very much money otherwise. It's the dumbest system ever.
- cammikebrown 4y ago
  You literally don’t have to think about it. Just tip 20% every time you’re at a bar or restaurant. That’s it. It’s a way for us to make better money. If that 20% was included and hidden I know you wouldn’t care as much, but it makes it tougher for us to get legally paid as much. Did you even read the article?
  - rebelos 4y ago
    Did you read his comment? His point is that this hidden costs system is grotesque. In fact, it is such a predatory tactic that it's either implicitly or explicitly outlawed in most parts of the developed world. It is also a convenient way to exploit many laborers beholden to tips, since a substantial part of their compensation is non-deterministic.
    - cammikebrown 4y ago
      I would be fine with getting rid of tips if we could get our labor laws up to the standards of the rest of the world, but until then we’re going to have tips.
SeanLuke 4y ago
How do you know this? In other countries the front of the house staff do just fine without tipping. And how much of your tip goes to the food preparation staff? You're supposed to be sharing your tips with them: how much do you tip them? Tipping needs to be burned with fire. Tipping and its history is dripping in classism, racisim, corruption, and the perpetuation of poverty. It grotesquely unevenly distributes wealth among the front-and and back-end staff in a restaurant. It turns many common experiences: dining, cab-riding, having your house cleaned, even renting a hotel room, into exercises in guilt-tripping, price manipulation and misleading advertising, and mental calculation. It's also a slippery slope. The rate used to be 10%. Then it rose to 15%. Now it's 20%. Why? Because employers are taking advantage of tipping to justify refusing to pay their employees a living wage. If there's one simple thing that would improve the situation for many service workers, it'd be making tipping illegal.
- cammikebrown 4y ago
  I live in the Pacific Northwest so we do in fact tip out the kitchen quite a bit. In other countries, there are guaranteed rights that we don’t have in the US and especially not in the service industry.
  - SeanLuke 4y ago
    There is no tipping for workers on an assembly line. We don't tip teachers. We don't tip custodians. We don't tip automobile repairmen. We don't tip busdrivers. We don't tip farmers. You are not special. Tipping does not exist to lift you out of poverty, or because your job is different in some way. Tipping was imposed out of pseudo-Victorian classism and full-stop racism in the United States in the 1920s, and has been maintained by your employer in order to avoid paying you a normal wage. They can legally pay you poverty wages because your job includes tips. Again, tipping must be destroyed.

lelandfe 4y ago

Question, how much to tip per drink to be a good patron? :)

cammikebrown 4y ago
A dollar is great!
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  I've gotten poor treatment after giving 10% on a $18 drink before. Edit: so I guess I'd ask what is the approximate reference price for your "A dollar" comment? Cause if it's a $5 can of beer, vs a $20 cocktail those are very different tips.
  - cammikebrown 4y ago
    $18 cocktails are pretty expensive. I work at a brewery so I’m not used to that.
  - HEHENE 4y ago
    I have always understood the rule of thumb to be $1 for “poured” drinks (beer, wine, etc) and $2 for cocktails.

kahrl 4y ago

I think most complaints are coming from customers who don't want to have to consider the wellbeing and livelihood of underpaid employees, who require charity to survive. In most every transaction these days, customers are guilted into providing wages for essentially unpaid employees, and I'm sick of the mind games.

FalconSensei 4y ago
> don't want to have to consider the wellbeing and livelihood of underpaid employees For me, I want employees to be paid fairly by their employer, which would calculate how much an item/service should cost, instead of shifting this obligation to me. Examples: going to a new coffee shop. In MOST places (in Vancouver at least), they'll just call you to the counter to pick your order. But some will get it to you. But you only discover that after having paid. So how to tip? Ordering food for delivery. Giving X% of the order doesn't do, because you might have a cheaper order from a restaurant that's further away, or an expensive one 2 blocks from your place. And you don't know yet if the delivery person is going to be walking and take 30 mins to arrive, or bike. Or if they have a bunch of other deliveries on the way and the food will arrive cold. So... I would like very much to just be told: it costs X.
alistairSH 4y ago
100% agreement. I'd prefer to pay the true cost of my coffee, including reasonable living wage and benefits for the barista. I neither need nor desire the additional mental load of worrying about tips. And I don't love the implicit argument being made in the article... the wealthy should subsidize coffee consumption for the less-wealthy. If you can't afford the full cost of a carry-out latte, perhaps make your own coffee at home? Or, alternatively, maybe Ferrari should slash prices, ask the wealthy to donate money to make up the difference, and we can all drive super-cars?

yamazakiwi 4y ago

The problem starts when you work for a place that does not get good tips but heavily relies on them.

cammikebrown 4y ago
If that happened to me I’d try and look for work elsewhere, but I know it’s not that easy (especially if you don’t live in a city).

eatsyourtacos 4y ago

>but most people tip fine. We tip out of guilt. I literally freaking hate it, and I'm starting to tip less and less and prices go up. Why should I tip you to pour me a drink? You are literally just doing your job. I don't call up my customers for a tip when I release an update to their program. I don't send them invoices with a TIP line and show how much 15, 18, 20% of the invoice is so they can add on to it. Tipping culture is literally (1) employers paying their workers as little as possible and (2) preying on peoples emotions. It's also a completely asymmetric transaction. How do I know if you are receiving below minimum wage or minimum wage/more? How do I know if you are getting healthcare, or other benefits? Yet I'm supposed to just assume you are being paid almost zero and give as much of my money to you as I can otherwise I will feel guilty. I'm ranting in general obviously, not at you. But seriously people tip out of guilt and thinking people like you are not making very much money otherwise. It's the dumbest system ever.

cammikebrown 4y ago
You literally don’t have to think about it. Just tip 20% every time you’re at a bar or restaurant. That’s it. It’s a way for us to make better money. If that 20% was included and hidden I know you wouldn’t care as much, but it makes it tougher for us to get legally paid as much. Did you even read the article?
- rebelos 4y ago
  Did you read his comment? His point is that this hidden costs system is grotesque. In fact, it is such a predatory tactic that it's either implicitly or explicitly outlawed in most parts of the developed world. It is also a convenient way to exploit many laborers beholden to tips, since a substantial part of their compensation is non-deterministic.
  - cammikebrown 4y ago
    I would be fine with getting rid of tips if we could get our labor laws up to the standards of the rest of the world, but until then we’re going to have tips.

SeanLuke 4y ago

How do you know this? In other countries the front of the house staff do just fine without tipping. And how much of your tip goes to the food preparation staff? You're supposed to be sharing your tips with them: how much do you tip them? Tipping needs to be burned with fire. Tipping and its history is dripping in classism, racisim, corruption, and the perpetuation of poverty. It grotesquely unevenly distributes wealth among the front-and and back-end staff in a restaurant. It turns many common experiences: dining, cab-riding, having your house cleaned, even renting a hotel room, into exercises in guilt-tripping, price manipulation and misleading advertising, and mental calculation. It's also a slippery slope. The rate used to be 10%. Then it rose to 15%. Now it's 20%. Why? Because employers are taking advantage of tipping to justify refusing to pay their employees a living wage. If there's one simple thing that would improve the situation for many service workers, it'd be making tipping illegal.

cammikebrown 4y ago
I live in the Pacific Northwest so we do in fact tip out the kitchen quite a bit. In other countries, there are guaranteed rights that we don’t have in the US and especially not in the service industry.
- SeanLuke 4y ago
  There is no tipping for workers on an assembly line. We don't tip teachers. We don't tip custodians. We don't tip automobile repairmen. We don't tip busdrivers. We don't tip farmers. You are not special. Tipping does not exist to lift you out of poverty, or because your job is different in some way. Tipping was imposed out of pseudo-Victorian classism and full-stop racism in the United States in the 1920s, and has been maintained by your employer in order to avoid paying you a normal wage. They can legally pay you poverty wages because your job includes tips. Again, tipping must be destroyed.