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If you are a dev, than you probably miss the extend of in which branding can have an effect. Sure, from some practical viewpoint nothing changes. But consider a

by prox 4y ago

If you are a dev, than you probably miss the extend of in which branding can have an effect. Sure, from some practical viewpoint nothing changes. But consider a logo part of a language, a culture, a visual statement. In design, it’s what we do In this case Oxford Press changed an iconic statement with a stupid generic say-nothing that could be a tire or a bagel company. Think of it like a banner of an army. You don’t want stand behind a banner that says “I am with stupid” It’s hard to convey to non design folk, but design does have an impact, even if it doesn’t bring world peace, it’s culturally significant.

taeric 4y ago
I mean, I get it. In that you can tell me and I can feel a little swayed by your argument. What I don't get, is the odd idea that there is a universal iconography that every should agree with. For one, I don't find this rebranding that much worse than the old one. I actually assumed both icons on the first tweet were the new thing, as I easily think both are kind of bleh. Finally, though, some nitpicks. Military banners are incredibly silly looking. Flags? The same. Usually with much simpler aesthetics that rely more on overall color than they do any iconography. And saying it "could be a tire or a bagel company" is also idiotically offensive. What is wrong with tire and bagel companies? This betrays a sense of class belief that is hilarious when juxtaposed with many of the criticisms given. (Specifically, the old class having the better icon.)
- prox 4y ago
  I get while you think it’s offensive, but that’s not intentional. It’s more that if you hold your hand on the words and you see only the circle logo you get different ideas of what this brand might be. Pretty sure a lot of people would answer “tyre company” or “gear manufacturer” or something. So it does not communicate well. About the banner nitpick, banners needed to be seen from afar, during chaotic scenes, so were often quite easy to distinguish from afar :)
  - taeric 4y ago
    I challenge this assertion. For one, I bet most folks have no clue what standard tire branding looks like. Indeed, https://www.carlogos.org/tire-brands/ https://www.carlogos.org/tire-brands/ shows that most of them do /not/ have circles on them. For bagels, I think you have a slightly better argument, but even then, https://99designs.com/inspiration/logos/bagel https://99designs.com/inspiration/logos/bagel doesn't really look like what is on display here. My nitpick on the banners was more that the iconography of them was not at all key in folks building an identity with them. I should have expanded and said it wasn't the banner that builds the identity. Rather, it is more likely the shared identity that builds the love of the banner.
robertlagrant 4y ago
> If you are a dev, than you probably miss the extend of in which branding can have an effect I think the inverse is true: being in visual design means branding matters to you. Just as audio engineers wince at imperfections that no one else even hears. And even that is probably more measurable than this; the people that came up with the new one are also "in design". Now you might say to that that it's different, because they were getting paid. But everyone in design is getting paid for design, so it's unsurprising they'd want to all talk about how important design is. But if you can only convince other designers, then that's a bit telling. I mean, I like good product design as much as the next person. But it's extremely easy to overstate its importance.
- prox 4y ago
  I really can’t comment on the designers idea, but it really depends on the agency and the workflow. Sometimes you have these crazy stages in the design process where the client choses the design by committee, and you get the blandest dullest compromise of them all. This looks a bit like that. This logo certainly feels like that. There are a lot of schools in design, but it doesn’t mean there are no criteria. It really depends on who made this, how it was made and so on. I feel design really fits into our and any culture. Think of iconic designs like coca cola, or nike, or apple. Also everything you own is probably designed at some point. Yeah maybe it’s not “world peace” significant, but culturally it is, it’s a social phenomenon.

by prox 4y ago

taeric 4y ago

I mean, I get it. In that you can tell me and I can feel a little swayed by your argument. What I don't get, is the odd idea that there is a universal iconography that every should agree with. For one, I don't find this rebranding that much worse than the old one. I actually assumed both icons on the first tweet were the new thing, as I easily think both are kind of bleh. Finally, though, some nitpicks. Military banners are incredibly silly looking. Flags? The same. Usually with much simpler aesthetics that rely more on overall color than they do any iconography. And saying it "could be a tire or a bagel company" is also idiotically offensive. What is wrong with tire and bagel companies? This betrays a sense of class belief that is hilarious when juxtaposed with many of the criticisms given. (Specifically, the old class having the better icon.)

prox 4y ago
I get while you think it’s offensive, but that’s not intentional. It’s more that if you hold your hand on the words and you see only the circle logo you get different ideas of what this brand might be. Pretty sure a lot of people would answer “tyre company” or “gear manufacturer” or something. So it does not communicate well. About the banner nitpick, banners needed to be seen from afar, during chaotic scenes, so were often quite easy to distinguish from afar :)
- taeric 4y ago
  I challenge this assertion. For one, I bet most folks have no clue what standard tire branding looks like. Indeed, https://www.carlogos.org/tire-brands/ https://www.carlogos.org/tire-brands/ shows that most of them do /not/ have circles on them. For bagels, I think you have a slightly better argument, but even then, https://99designs.com/inspiration/logos/bagel https://99designs.com/inspiration/logos/bagel doesn't really look like what is on display here. My nitpick on the banners was more that the iconography of them was not at all key in folks building an identity with them. I should have expanded and said it wasn't the banner that builds the identity. Rather, it is more likely the shared identity that builds the love of the banner.

robertlagrant 4y ago

> If you are a dev, than you probably miss the extend of in which branding can have an effect I think the inverse is true: being in visual design means branding matters to you. Just as audio engineers wince at imperfections that no one else even hears. And even that is probably more measurable than this; the people that came up with the new one are also "in design". Now you might say to that that it's different, because they were getting paid. But everyone in design is getting paid for design, so it's unsurprising they'd want to all talk about how important design is. But if you can only convince other designers, then that's a bit telling. I mean, I like good product design as much as the next person. But it's extremely easy to overstate its importance.

prox 4y ago
I really can’t comment on the designers idea, but it really depends on the agency and the workflow. Sometimes you have these crazy stages in the design process where the client choses the design by committee, and you get the blandest dullest compromise of them all. This looks a bit like that. This logo certainly feels like that. There are a lot of schools in design, but it doesn’t mean there are no criteria. It really depends on who made this, how it was made and so on. I feel design really fits into our and any culture. Think of iconic designs like coca cola, or nike, or apple. Also everything you own is probably designed at some point. Yeah maybe it’s not “world peace” significant, but culturally it is, it’s a social phenomenon.