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I'm sure I've read it in reputable newspapers presented as an argument for keeping consenting polygamous relationships illegal - 'all the high status men will g

I'm sure I've read it in reputable newspapers presented as an argument for keeping consenting polygamous relationships illegal - 'all the high status men will get multiple wives and low status men won't have wives and will be troublemakers'.

gjsman-1000 4y ago
You can actually look into statistics and see this is true. The 20 most violent African countries, for example, almost all have widespread polygamy.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Yeah I know it's true not questioning the fact... but is it women's job to solve it by marrying people they won't want to marry? Why should they do that to solve society's problems?
  - twoifbyseat 4y ago
    No. They don't really bear the brunt of the violence anyway, so why should they care?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - luckylion 4y ago
    They're not romantic choices, the polygamy follows power distribution. The actual problem isn't that it's legal to have multiple wives, it's that resources are distributed so badly, that you end up with lots of poor men not having a stake in society. They're expected to work so that the rich and their wives can live leisurely, but it's all stick and no carrot. If the stick every breaks, you get lots of violence.
  - jonahx 4y ago
    Worth noting that in countries with polygamy, it's not like women are afforded more choice than in their Western counterparts. Quite the contrary. The type of thing you see is a poor farmer marrying off his very young daughter as the 3rd wife of someone wealthy to provide for her. So in practice it's much closer to forced marriages, not unfettered choice for women.
  - leereeves 4y ago
    Do you want to live in a world where no one makes sacrifices to solve anyone else's problem?
- P_I_Staker 4y ago
  Seems like there could be some correlation issues here.
jonahx 4y ago
Yes, that is true, but even that argument does not imply that "women should be forced to marry men they don't like." To make that jump is to make a straw man of the argument. Whether or not that is factually true about polygamous society, I have no idea (EDIT: looks like it is, according to the other comments). I'm saying only that "being against legal polygamy" does not mean "being for forced marriages."
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  It is saying that you may not be able to marry the person that you do actually want to marry though, and the justification given by some people is that is so that you are incentivised instead marry someone else, someone you presumably did not really want to marry. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/case-against-polygamy/397823/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/case-ag... > monogamy's main cultural evolutionary advantage over polygyny is the more egalitarian distribution of women, which reduces male competition and social problems. It's this 'distribution of women' that seems dark to me. That can't be that much of a crazy opinion as people here seem to think?
  - jonahx 4y ago
    > It's this 'distribution of women' that seems dark to me. That can't be that much of a crazy opinion as people here seem to think? It's a very analytical, "cold" way to phrase it, yes, but you get this effect with many "human" problems that are studied scientifically, whether poverty, starvation, etc. Also note the same researchers can, and do, refer to the 'distribution of men' when discussing female mating preferences. > incentivised instead marry someone else, someone you presumably did not really want to marry. At a macro level, this is obviously true statistically. But do people experience it as such? You live in a non-polygamous society -- do you or the women you know feel like their spouses were forced on them? Because, to some degree, statistically, they were, as you correctly point out. But the mechanism is just via an accepted, background social norm... there are no arranged marriages, all marriages all voluntary, and everyone retains the option not to marry.
    - 4y ago
red_trumpet 4y ago
> consenting polygamous relationships Where are they illegal? Or are you talking about marriage?
- jonahx 4y ago
  Yes, he's talking about men legally having multiple wives.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Polygamy is illegal in the UK, US, and most places I believe? Polygamy means multiple marriages at the same time.

gjsman-1000 4y ago

You can actually look into statistics and see this is true. The 20 most violent African countries, for example, almost all have widespread polygamy.

chrisseaton 4y ago
Yeah I know it's true not questioning the fact... but is it women's job to solve it by marrying people they won't want to marry? Why should they do that to solve society's problems?
- twoifbyseat 4y ago
  No. They don't really bear the brunt of the violence anyway, so why should they care?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- luckylion 4y ago
  They're not romantic choices, the polygamy follows power distribution. The actual problem isn't that it's legal to have multiple wives, it's that resources are distributed so badly, that you end up with lots of poor men not having a stake in society. They're expected to work so that the rich and their wives can live leisurely, but it's all stick and no carrot. If the stick every breaks, you get lots of violence.
- jonahx 4y ago
  Worth noting that in countries with polygamy, it's not like women are afforded more choice than in their Western counterparts. Quite the contrary. The type of thing you see is a poor farmer marrying off his very young daughter as the 3rd wife of someone wealthy to provide for her. So in practice it's much closer to forced marriages, not unfettered choice for women.
- leereeves 4y ago
  Do you want to live in a world where no one makes sacrifices to solve anyone else's problem?
P_I_Staker 4y ago
Seems like there could be some correlation issues here.

jonahx 4y ago

Yes, that is true, but even that argument does not imply that "women should be forced to marry men they don't like." To make that jump is to make a straw man of the argument. Whether or not that is factually true about polygamous society, I have no idea (EDIT: looks like it is, according to the other comments). I'm saying only that "being against legal polygamy" does not mean "being for forced marriages."

chrisseaton 4y ago
It is saying that you may not be able to marry the person that you do actually want to marry though, and the justification given by some people is that is so that you are incentivised instead marry someone else, someone you presumably did not really want to marry. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/case-against-polygamy/397823/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/case-ag... > monogamy's main cultural evolutionary advantage over polygyny is the more egalitarian distribution of women, which reduces male competition and social problems. It's this 'distribution of women' that seems dark to me. That can't be that much of a crazy opinion as people here seem to think?
- jonahx 4y ago
  > It's this 'distribution of women' that seems dark to me. That can't be that much of a crazy opinion as people here seem to think? It's a very analytical, "cold" way to phrase it, yes, but you get this effect with many "human" problems that are studied scientifically, whether poverty, starvation, etc. Also note the same researchers can, and do, refer to the 'distribution of men' when discussing female mating preferences. > incentivised instead marry someone else, someone you presumably did not really want to marry. At a macro level, this is obviously true statistically. But do people experience it as such? You live in a non-polygamous society -- do you or the women you know feel like their spouses were forced on them? Because, to some degree, statistically, they were, as you correctly point out. But the mechanism is just via an accepted, background social norm... there are no arranged marriages, all marriages all voluntary, and everyone retains the option not to marry.
  - 4y ago

red_trumpet 4y ago

> consenting polygamous relationships Where are they illegal? Or are you talking about marriage?

jonahx 4y ago
Yes, he's talking about men legally having multiple wives.
chrisseaton 4y ago
Polygamy is illegal in the UK, US, and most places I believe? Polygamy means multiple marriages at the same time.