4 ms·

I'm not a woman hater or pro-man. Maybe because marriage isn't as beneficial as it was 50 years ago? Young people can't afford to buy a home and start a family

I'm not a woman hater or pro-man. Maybe because marriage isn't as beneficial as it was 50 years ago? Young people can't afford to buy a home and start a family. So why rush to get married and bring kids into the world. Women are working a lot more and having great careers they don't want to leave.

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socialismisok 4y ago
What you describe is independent of gender. If one parent could sustain a household, marriage becomes a bit easier - you can divide family responsibilities. But today you often need both partners to work, leaving both too tired to own all the household labor. I wonder if we'll see an increase in polycules to address this and/or a return to multigenerational housing.
- Jensson 4y ago
  Women want men to take the burden until her life gets manageable. Today the burden women want men to take is too great for most men, so they don't want to get married. Women still want to get married as long as the man is willing to take that heavy burden, to them this isn't a problem.
  - socialismisok 4y ago
    Hey, I'm curious where you are from. Culturally, what you've said here would generally be considered offensive where I'm from. I suspect, but I'm not sure, that we come from different places/backgrounds. Given that, I of course reject your sweeping generalizations about both men and women.
    - P_I_Staker 4y ago
      Where are you from and/or what are you offended by? I think I might partially agree with OP, in that men just don't feel comfortable taking on these roles. It's debatable how "fair" they are. Many would say that men are still at the advantage and men just can't accept a reduced (but still dominate) role. I do think I've seen some thing in my personal life (well my married friends') that are concerning and do point to some amount of unfair treatment.
      - socialismisok 4y ago
        I'm from the Pacific Northwest, in the US. I interpreted the post as being about how women wanting equality was somehow a negative. If the post were framed more like, "Men are unwilling to give up the status and do the labor necessary for gender equality" I'd be more receptive, though even that would be a generalization. I think the way it was framed, particularly as a generalization about "women" (as if that was somehow a homogenous group) stood out most strongly to me. Combined with the admittedly unclear idea that women want men to take their burdens...
        P_I_Staker 4y ago
        That's the thing though, you or whoever are getting offended because people don't use drastically negative and judgemental undertones: "man be bad and not help women". Men's frustrations domestically must always be framed in a way where men are doing something bad to women. As opposed to just not wanting to do certain work, or disagree about how it should be done (or whether it should be done). Men are not saying that women should pick up the slack (others might be, but here we aren't). They're saying we'll just not have family, or the work should just not get done sometimes. Further, I would speculate that if women are (rightly) displacing men, and IF they also tend to want to date men that make more money, that could be a problem... ... or at least there could be a lot more single people. Seems to be happening already and driven by other forces (social isolation).

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socialismisok 4y ago

What you describe is independent of gender. If one parent could sustain a household, marriage becomes a bit easier - you can divide family responsibilities. But today you often need both partners to work, leaving both too tired to own all the household labor. I wonder if we'll see an increase in polycules to address this and/or a return to multigenerational housing.

Jensson 4y ago
Women want men to take the burden until her life gets manageable. Today the burden women want men to take is too great for most men, so they don't want to get married. Women still want to get married as long as the man is willing to take that heavy burden, to them this isn't a problem.
- socialismisok 4y ago
  Hey, I'm curious where you are from. Culturally, what you've said here would generally be considered offensive where I'm from. I suspect, but I'm not sure, that we come from different places/backgrounds. Given that, I of course reject your sweeping generalizations about both men and women.
  - P_I_Staker 4y ago
    Where are you from and/or what are you offended by? I think I might partially agree with OP, in that men just don't feel comfortable taking on these roles. It's debatable how "fair" they are. Many would say that men are still at the advantage and men just can't accept a reduced (but still dominate) role. I do think I've seen some thing in my personal life (well my married friends') that are concerning and do point to some amount of unfair treatment.
    - socialismisok 4y ago
      I'm from the Pacific Northwest, in the US. I interpreted the post as being about how women wanting equality was somehow a negative. If the post were framed more like, "Men are unwilling to give up the status and do the labor necessary for gender equality" I'd be more receptive, though even that would be a generalization. I think the way it was framed, particularly as a generalization about "women" (as if that was somehow a homogenous group) stood out most strongly to me. Combined with the admittedly unclear idea that women want men to take their burdens...
      - P_I_Staker 4y ago
        That's the thing though, you or whoever are getting offended because people don't use drastically negative and judgemental undertones: "man be bad and not help women". Men's frustrations domestically must always be framed in a way where men are doing something bad to women. As opposed to just not wanting to do certain work, or disagree about how it should be done (or whether it should be done). Men are not saying that women should pick up the slack (others might be, but here we aren't). They're saying we'll just not have family, or the work should just not get done sometimes. Further, I would speculate that if women are (rightly) displacing men, and IF they also tend to want to date men that make more money, that could be a problem... ... or at least there could be a lot more single people. Seems to be happening already and driven by other forces (social isolation).