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Early education is slow for a tiny minority of people. You can't change the system to suit the most priviledged. That's a fast track towards creating a two-tier

Early education is slow for a tiny minority of people. You can't change the system to suit the most priviledged. That's a fast track towards creating a two-tier society. If a child is so clever, he can read books himself and he can skip grades. But if a child is lagging behind, he requires help from others.

Prrometheus 18y ago
Why are colleges able to cater to people of all abilities whereas our early education can not? It is a fallacy to think that we must have one system for everybody.
- maxklein 18y ago
  Because a person at college age learns different from a child.
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    Does a person at college age learn different from a 16 year old?
- echair 18y ago
  Because colleges select applicants by aptitude, and elementary schools by proximity.
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    What accounts for the difference here? Why can't K-12 institutions select by aptitude?
    - echair 18y ago
      Because you can't pack enough different institutions within a sufficiently small radius. Parents want 5 year olds to live at home. They're ok with 18 year olds not.
      - Prrometheus 18y ago
        Most people live within range of a few different schools. Why are they all the same?
- jumper 18y ago
  Because colleges actually involve the students in their education.... if only to a small extent.
rsheridan6 18y ago
We already have an n-tiered society, partly because not everybody has the same abilities and habits. Even if we were to redistribute all wealth equitably now, soon the same old inequality would reemerge. The only real solution would be to hit every smart or talented person on the head with a hammer until they were equal with the dumbest person. Crippling the educational opportunities of smart kids is just a half-measure.
- maxklein 18y ago
  Nobody is attempting to create an equal society. The goal is to create a society where the less talented are not living in ghettos and robbing you when you drive by in your BMW. Everybody should be helped to reach a certain level, otherwise you create a crime ridden society where some people live behind gated communities. Wealth should never be distributed equally, and your attempting to say that I support that is a distortion of my words. Everyone has to have an equal opportunity, and a minimum of wealth so that he does not starve to death. And I don't mean 'technically' an equal opportunity, but a real equal opportunity. You know, if I did not live in a country with a free education system, I'd probably be a mechanic or electrician right now. You can't take away my opportunity to be educated, and then say you are better off because you are smarter or more talented. And speaking of talented - is beauty a talent? Is singing a talent? Is programming skill a talent? Who gets to decide who deserves to have this talent? Some random fluke of nature? I'm talented in programming, but that sure as hell does not mean that I deserve a better life than some guy who is talented at nothing, but works and struggles every single day. Talent is the lottery, I got my share of this lottery, and some people just did not. I'm not going to spit on them and concentrate only on myself. I believe that every single person should have the opportunity to get further in life.
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    I don't see how creating a school system flexible enough to accommodate diverse abilities and interests would create an evil bias in society. What is so bad about letting parents choose the educational product that is best for their child? We already do this for college.
  - 18y ago
quantumhobbit 18y ago
"If a child is so clever, he can read books himself and he can skip grades. But if a child is lagging behind, he requires help from others." Part of the problem is that clever children are not allowed to skip grades at most schools. Reading extra material takes time that is often prioritized for homework(often dull for a bright student). Also how is the student supposed to know what books to read on a subject. It is here that a mentor would be very helpful. I wasn't allowed to skip grades, so I read in other books in high school classes. Most of what I read was undirected and I studied without any conviction, because I was just passing the time. I developed a terrible work ethic that hinders me to this day because I was never challenged at a young age. Not that I would have become some mathematical prodigy but I'm certain I could have accomplished more by now if I had more encouragement early on. Here's an illuminating anecdote about the attitude most teachers have towards students: One day I finished my reading assignment early in freshman physical science class. I put away the textbook(most high school science texts are terrible and this was no exception) and started to read something of my own, Einstein's book on Relativity for layperson. The teacher called me out for not doing my assignment. She didn't believe that I had finished, because no one could have read that fast. I don't actually read unusually fast, but I did finish the assignment. She demanded to know what I was reading and after I answered sent me to the principals office for, "reading a book unrelated to physics". The principal wasn't in his office but his secretary thought that the incident was hilarious.
- maxklein 18y ago
  A child who skips grades usually faces worse problems. Skipping a grade retards your social skills badly, and that's worse than not studying enough. It's not a good idea to put a child together with other children a year or a year and a half older than him. There are millions of accomplished people in the world today. 98% of them went through a standard schooling experience, and then ended up accomplished. If you have a problem with your work ethic, don't blame the school system - it seemed to have worked for all those other succesful people. There is something I realised - there is no point blaming anything in your past for any of your current problems. Because the moment you realise that there is a current problem, you can fix it, irrelevant of where it came from. If instead of fixing, you go casting blame, that is really your problem then.

Prrometheus 18y ago

Why are colleges able to cater to people of all abilities whereas our early education can not? It is a fallacy to think that we must have one system for everybody.

maxklein 18y ago
Because a person at college age learns different from a child.
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  Does a person at college age learn different from a 16 year old?
echair 18y ago
Because colleges select applicants by aptitude, and elementary schools by proximity.
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  What accounts for the difference here? Why can't K-12 institutions select by aptitude?
  - echair 18y ago
    Because you can't pack enough different institutions within a sufficiently small radius. Parents want 5 year olds to live at home. They're ok with 18 year olds not.
    - Prrometheus 18y ago
      Most people live within range of a few different schools. Why are they all the same?
jumper 18y ago
Because colleges actually involve the students in their education.... if only to a small extent.

rsheridan6 18y ago

We already have an n-tiered society, partly because not everybody has the same abilities and habits. Even if we were to redistribute all wealth equitably now, soon the same old inequality would reemerge. The only real solution would be to hit every smart or talented person on the head with a hammer until they were equal with the dumbest person. Crippling the educational opportunities of smart kids is just a half-measure.

maxklein 18y ago
Nobody is attempting to create an equal society. The goal is to create a society where the less talented are not living in ghettos and robbing you when you drive by in your BMW. Everybody should be helped to reach a certain level, otherwise you create a crime ridden society where some people live behind gated communities. Wealth should never be distributed equally, and your attempting to say that I support that is a distortion of my words. Everyone has to have an equal opportunity, and a minimum of wealth so that he does not starve to death. And I don't mean 'technically' an equal opportunity, but a real equal opportunity. You know, if I did not live in a country with a free education system, I'd probably be a mechanic or electrician right now. You can't take away my opportunity to be educated, and then say you are better off because you are smarter or more talented. And speaking of talented - is beauty a talent? Is singing a talent? Is programming skill a talent? Who gets to decide who deserves to have this talent? Some random fluke of nature? I'm talented in programming, but that sure as hell does not mean that I deserve a better life than some guy who is talented at nothing, but works and struggles every single day. Talent is the lottery, I got my share of this lottery, and some people just did not. I'm not going to spit on them and concentrate only on myself. I believe that every single person should have the opportunity to get further in life.
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  I don't see how creating a school system flexible enough to accommodate diverse abilities and interests would create an evil bias in society. What is so bad about letting parents choose the educational product that is best for their child? We already do this for college.
- 18y ago

quantumhobbit 18y ago

"If a child is so clever, he can read books himself and he can skip grades. But if a child is lagging behind, he requires help from others." Part of the problem is that clever children are not allowed to skip grades at most schools. Reading extra material takes time that is often prioritized for homework(often dull for a bright student). Also how is the student supposed to know what books to read on a subject. It is here that a mentor would be very helpful. I wasn't allowed to skip grades, so I read in other books in high school classes. Most of what I read was undirected and I studied without any conviction, because I was just passing the time. I developed a terrible work ethic that hinders me to this day because I was never challenged at a young age. Not that I would have become some mathematical prodigy but I'm certain I could have accomplished more by now if I had more encouragement early on. Here's an illuminating anecdote about the attitude most teachers have towards students: One day I finished my reading assignment early in freshman physical science class. I put away the textbook(most high school science texts are terrible and this was no exception) and started to read something of my own, Einstein's book on Relativity for layperson. The teacher called me out for not doing my assignment. She didn't believe that I had finished, because no one could have read that fast. I don't actually read unusually fast, but I did finish the assignment. She demanded to know what I was reading and after I answered sent me to the principals office for, "reading a book unrelated to physics". The principal wasn't in his office but his secretary thought that the incident was hilarious.

maxklein 18y ago
A child who skips grades usually faces worse problems. Skipping a grade retards your social skills badly, and that's worse than not studying enough. It's not a good idea to put a child together with other children a year or a year and a half older than him. There are millions of accomplished people in the world today. 98% of them went through a standard schooling experience, and then ended up accomplished. If you have a problem with your work ethic, don't blame the school system - it seemed to have worked for all those other succesful people. There is something I realised - there is no point blaming anything in your past for any of your current problems. Because the moment you realise that there is a current problem, you can fix it, irrelevant of where it came from. If instead of fixing, you go casting blame, that is really your problem then.