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Seems so weird to me to read that a request for extra medial staff would go to firefighters. Intellectually I know the US has a combined Firefighter/Paramedic c

Seems so weird to me to read that a request for extra medial staff would go to firefighters. Intellectually I know the US has a combined Firefighter/Paramedic crew, but it's still jarring to read it. Do other countries merge firefighting and ambulance functions or is it a US only thing?

nerdponx 4y ago
The US doesn't, we have dedicated EMTs. But firefighters might have first aid training too, and are more likely to be available on a random night.
- JshWright 4y ago
  The US absolutely does, it just depends on the agency. I'm a firefighter/paramedic who sometimes rides a fire truck, sometimes rides an ambulance, and sometimes switches from one to the other mid-call as the situation warrants.
- ejb999 4y ago
  Yes the US does - it varies by state and even by town/city. Many of the towns near me you need to actually be a paramedic to become a firefighter and vice-versa - can't be one without the other in some areas. Not sure I necessarily agree with this, but it does happen. I see the benefit, but also think there are a lot of people that would be good firefighters, but may not have the willingness or ability to do the classroom and testing required to be pass a full paramedic course.
ubercore 4y ago
It totally depends on where you are -- some municipalities have their own EMTs, some are attached to fire, etc.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
We have firefighters cross-trained to handle first aid so there are more people available in spread out areas. Often a fire truck is on scene faster than the ambulance. Once the ambulance is on scene, firefighters can assist paramedics.
JshWright 4y ago
The US is a little unique in the extent to which "firefighter/paramedic" is a common role, but it's very typical for firefighting personal to have at least some level of medical training, even if it's just the "first responder" level. It's not clear to me from the story if the personnel sent over by the fire department were paramedics at all. The actions described would be well within the scope of a BLS first responder. If I had to guess, the chief sent a BLS engine company, which would typically consist of 3-4 people, all trained to the EMT/FR level.
- LorenPechtel 4y ago
  That's my impression, also. It doesn't compromise their primary job because if they're actually needed at a fire they can roll from the hospital rather than the station. I've seen plenty of fire/paramedic/ambulance crews doing various things while awaiting a call. So long as they're ready to jump on the truck and roll quickly dispatch simply needs to know where they are so as to determine what unit is closest.
Waterluvian 4y ago
Modern firefighters are far far more than just for fighting fires. In my region EMS is separate but the firefighters still have plenty of first aid training and would be able to provide the response they did in this article.
rootusrootus 4y ago
There's a good reason firefighters are cross trained, so it probably does happen in other places too. Go look at the dispatch log for your local fire department. For every fire they put out, there are probably 100 or more medical emergencies, car accidents, etc. They may go for days at a time without seeing anything that even looks like a fire. If the only thing they were allowed to do was fight fires, they'd be idle most of the time.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  I think it’s pretty unique to the US. In most places you have a police service, a fire service, and an ambulance service, all separate but working together. Makes sense they’re separate - different roles to specialise in and they move between different locations and leave the scene at different times.
  - rtkwe 4y ago
    The US is largely the same but fire services are sent out to a lot of those because they also have the tools to deal with getting access to patients and making the scene safe for ambulance crews. Sending them out immediately means you don't have to wait for them if the patient's door is locked or their car is all smashed up and you need fire services to peel the car apart to get to them.
  - LorenPechtel 4y ago
    But you actually need police, fire, rescue, and ambulance. We group fire and rescue together because you sometimes have to get trapped people away from a fire.
- datavirtue 4y ago
  Incidentally, from my experience helping to manage a fire department payroll and being the son of a nurse, firefighters and nurses are paid about the same for a given area. I'm not trying to make a point, just provide some context.
  - 4y ago
MichaelCollins 4y ago
The suggestion that other countries don't do this seems weird. Are paramedics in other countries trained and equipped to cut open wrecked and burning cars? Many sorts of accidents will require both firefighters and paramedics, so you may as well encourage firefighters to be trained paramedics as well (not all American firefighters are, but many of them are.)
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > Many sorts of accidents will require both firefighters and paramedics Yeah so both attend. Makes sense they're separate vehicles as the ambulance would ideally leave while the fire brigade are still sorting out the scene. And normally the police as well, for a road accident. If you can understand the police being separate you can understand the fire and ambulance being separate.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    Police in America often have paramedic training as well, for a reason. You say "both attend" but somebody gets there first. Sometimes police get there first, sometimes firefighters get there first. All should be encouraged to get trained. All three would receive firefighter training too, if not for the obvious issue of their vehicles and equipment being specialized and expensive. But all of them can be trained to render first aid, so that is encouraged.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      Maybe it's different in the US but in the UK 'paramedic' is a full-time thing, professionally registered and monitored. You'd seriously struggle to combine that with any other full-time profession. They do it in the military is the only place I know that combines it. I can't see it as being realistic to train everyone as a paramedic for our definition of it. I doubt most people could pass the training.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago

nerdponx 4y ago

The US doesn't, we have dedicated EMTs. But firefighters might have first aid training too, and are more likely to be available on a random night.

JshWright 4y ago
The US absolutely does, it just depends on the agency. I'm a firefighter/paramedic who sometimes rides a fire truck, sometimes rides an ambulance, and sometimes switches from one to the other mid-call as the situation warrants.
ejb999 4y ago
Yes the US does - it varies by state and even by town/city. Many of the towns near me you need to actually be a paramedic to become a firefighter and vice-versa - can't be one without the other in some areas. Not sure I necessarily agree with this, but it does happen. I see the benefit, but also think there are a lot of people that would be good firefighters, but may not have the willingness or ability to do the classroom and testing required to be pass a full paramedic course.

ubercore 4y ago

It totally depends on where you are -- some municipalities have their own EMTs, some are attached to fire, etc.

kayodelycaon 4y ago

We have firefighters cross-trained to handle first aid so there are more people available in spread out areas. Often a fire truck is on scene faster than the ambulance. Once the ambulance is on scene, firefighters can assist paramedics.

JshWright 4y ago

The US is a little unique in the extent to which "firefighter/paramedic" is a common role, but it's very typical for firefighting personal to have at least some level of medical training, even if it's just the "first responder" level. It's not clear to me from the story if the personnel sent over by the fire department were paramedics at all. The actions described would be well within the scope of a BLS first responder. If I had to guess, the chief sent a BLS engine company, which would typically consist of 3-4 people, all trained to the EMT/FR level.

LorenPechtel 4y ago
That's my impression, also. It doesn't compromise their primary job because if they're actually needed at a fire they can roll from the hospital rather than the station. I've seen plenty of fire/paramedic/ambulance crews doing various things while awaiting a call. So long as they're ready to jump on the truck and roll quickly dispatch simply needs to know where they are so as to determine what unit is closest.

Waterluvian 4y ago

Modern firefighters are far far more than just for fighting fires. In my region EMS is separate but the firefighters still have plenty of first aid training and would be able to provide the response they did in this article.

rootusrootus 4y ago

There's a good reason firefighters are cross trained, so it probably does happen in other places too. Go look at the dispatch log for your local fire department. For every fire they put out, there are probably 100 or more medical emergencies, car accidents, etc. They may go for days at a time without seeing anything that even looks like a fire. If the only thing they were allowed to do was fight fires, they'd be idle most of the time.

chrisseaton 4y ago
I think it’s pretty unique to the US. In most places you have a police service, a fire service, and an ambulance service, all separate but working together. Makes sense they’re separate - different roles to specialise in and they move between different locations and leave the scene at different times.
- rtkwe 4y ago
  The US is largely the same but fire services are sent out to a lot of those because they also have the tools to deal with getting access to patients and making the scene safe for ambulance crews. Sending them out immediately means you don't have to wait for them if the patient's door is locked or their car is all smashed up and you need fire services to peel the car apart to get to them.
- LorenPechtel 4y ago
  But you actually need police, fire, rescue, and ambulance. We group fire and rescue together because you sometimes have to get trapped people away from a fire.
datavirtue 4y ago
Incidentally, from my experience helping to manage a fire department payroll and being the son of a nurse, firefighters and nurses are paid about the same for a given area. I'm not trying to make a point, just provide some context.
- 4y ago

MichaelCollins 4y ago

The suggestion that other countries don't do this seems weird. Are paramedics in other countries trained and equipped to cut open wrecked and burning cars? Many sorts of accidents will require both firefighters and paramedics, so you may as well encourage firefighters to be trained paramedics as well (not all American firefighters are, but many of them are.)

chrisseaton 4y ago
> Many sorts of accidents will require both firefighters and paramedics Yeah so both attend. Makes sense they're separate vehicles as the ambulance would ideally leave while the fire brigade are still sorting out the scene. And normally the police as well, for a road accident. If you can understand the police being separate you can understand the fire and ambulance being separate.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  Police in America often have paramedic training as well, for a reason. You say "both attend" but somebody gets there first. Sometimes police get there first, sometimes firefighters get there first. All should be encouraged to get trained. All three would receive firefighter training too, if not for the obvious issue of their vehicles and equipment being specialized and expensive. But all of them can be trained to render first aid, so that is encouraged.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Maybe it's different in the US but in the UK 'paramedic' is a full-time thing, professionally registered and monitored. You'd seriously struggle to combine that with any other full-time profession. They do it in the military is the only place I know that combines it. I can't see it as being realistic to train everyone as a paramedic for our definition of it. I doubt most people could pass the training.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago