4 ms·

Circle is being censored from the C++ Reddit

26 points by Kukumber 4y ago

Demonsult 4y ago
I've seen other examples where thinking outside the C++ box is taboo. There was a talk at one of the conferences where the speaker was obviously referring to some of the enhancements introduced by Qt while taking care to never actually mention it by name.
monkpit 4y ago
The mod’s response seems fairly reasonable (from an outsider’s perspective). Has the author considered trying r/programming, HN, or Lobste.rs? If they need the publicity so badly, going on a rant like this doesn’t seem helpful.
- teruakohatu 4y ago
  > or Lobste.rs This is invite only, so unless the author knows another user it won't be much help. I have visited the site for years without, to my knowledge, knowing another user who can invite me.
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    I have an account, hardly ever log in. The community is too small for good discussion, but the links to tools or other information is invaluable. You're fine browsing anonymously.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    I used to have an account there and participated in the discussion for years until I got banned a few years ago in a discussion with a blue Anime-fox avatar who was on a mission to politicise the discourse. Judging from similar reports this seems to be relatively common on the site so I just gave up on it. The discourse can be good but the place does not allow anyone to deviate from the desired narrative. It is odd to see how lobste.rs grew of out discontent with the way HN was moderated but ended up falling into that trap itself. The way a site is moderated is a decisive factor for the couleur locale or 'culture' of the place. While I have my grumblings about HN moderation - or, more specifically, about the use of down-votes for expressing disagreement - this site is not as hostile to those who do not follow the narrative as lobste.rs is - or was, I have not been there for a long time so things could have changed.
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  > The mod’s response seems fairly reasonable Of course it does, it is in mod's interest to have "reasonable cause" in case things like this end up public. However, there is nothing of sorts even mentioned in the /r/cpp rules: 1. Question/Help Questions and help posts are off-topic for this subreddit. Use r/cpp_questions or StackOverflow instead. 2. Off-topic [empty] The author also posted a counter-example of a Val post that was up, even though it is as much "off-topic" as Circle, based on the mod's argument: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/ypawe2/the_val_object_model_dave_abrahams_sean_parent/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/ypawe2/the_val_object_... Searching further, there seem to be even more not-quite-C++ posts hanging around not getting removed: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/xgcbt9/cppfront_herb_sutters_personal_experimental_c/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/xgcbt9/cppfront_herb_s... https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/r27dea/i_wrote_a_simple_goc_compiler_for_gameplay/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/r27dea/i_wrote_a_simpl... https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/ug90nz/a_ruststyle_borrow_checker_for_c_with_partial/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/ug90nz/a_ruststyle_bor... Based on those facts, I find it fairly plausible that the mod is doing it in bad faith. But Reddit is especially notorius for its mods' powertripping and lack of accountability, so it's nothing new in my book.
  - monkpit 4y ago
    I guess my real point is, instead of trying to “expose” the subreddit mod, spend that energy somewhere else and let it go.
    - bheadmaster 4y ago
      I agree with your real point, personally. But also sympathize with the guy. Getting stopped from posting something that you've spent a good deal of time and effort building surely feels bad.
  - cmeacham98 4y ago
    The Val post is about the object model and how it relates to (and could be used in a future version of) C++, and is written by major contributors in the C++ space like David Abrahams. OP's post, on the other hand, is blatant promotion of their personal programming language, and I'm not sure why they think it would be allowed on /r/cpp
- giancarlostoro 4y ago
  Doesnt help they work in a similar space makes it seem deliberately malicious.
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  I can sympathize with feeling like a moderator of a popular subreddit is suppressing debate/dissent. It is infuriating, especially when conflict of interest is suspected.
cmeacham98 4y ago
Twitter OP seems like they are chomping at the bit for any excuse to play victim related to their personal programming language (err, sorry, I mean C++ compiler extension hosted on a website that ends with -lang.org) https://twitter.com/foonathan/status/1590612183423254528 https://twitter.com/foonathan/status/1590612183423254528
chomp 4y ago
Is it _really_ censorship though? Surely you can see a difference between posting off-topic information, and suppression. I shouldn't be permitted to post e.g. C++ on the C subreddit, because it's not the same thing. The original post was misleading: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/yqjrwx/c_type_erasure_aka_trait_objects_sean_baxter/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/yqjrwx/c_type_erasure_... Circle Lang is a superset of C++. It isn't C++. Maybe you should frame the post as a feature proposal instead of showing something that C++ can't do, and claiming it as C++. If this isn't your post, then I apologize for the assumption. EDIT: Looks like someone's done this already and the post is happy: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/yriwxr/potential_c_extension_for_type_erasure_as_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/yriwxr/potential_c_ext...
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  It seems like a communication issue. The mod said that the post was removed for being off-topic - when it was clearly removed for having a misleading title. "Removed for being off-topic" would imply that no other posts about the language would be accepted - it is understandable that this caused a bit of anger in the author. "Removed for having a misleading title" would imply that only the misleading title is offending - and that other posts would be accepted, as long as they didn't have a misleading title. I'm sure if the mod explicitly said this, it wouldn't cause this much of a reaction.

26 points by Kukumber 4y ago

I've seen other examples where thinking outside the C++ box is taboo. There was a talk at one of the conferences where the speaker was obviously referring to some of the enhancements introduced by Qt while taking care to never actually mention it by name.

monkpit 4y ago

The mod’s response seems fairly reasonable (from an outsider’s perspective). Has the author considered trying r/programming, HN, or Lobste.rs? If they need the publicity so badly, going on a rant like this doesn’t seem helpful.

teruakohatu 4y ago
> or Lobste.rs This is invite only, so unless the author knows another user it won't be much help. I have visited the site for years without, to my knowledge, knowing another user who can invite me.
- dotancohen 4y ago
  I have an account, hardly ever log in. The community is too small for good discussion, but the links to tools or other information is invaluable. You're fine browsing anonymously.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  I used to have an account there and participated in the discussion for years until I got banned a few years ago in a discussion with a blue Anime-fox avatar who was on a mission to politicise the discourse. Judging from similar reports this seems to be relatively common on the site so I just gave up on it. The discourse can be good but the place does not allow anyone to deviate from the desired narrative. It is odd to see how lobste.rs grew of out discontent with the way HN was moderated but ended up falling into that trap itself. The way a site is moderated is a decisive factor for the couleur locale or 'culture' of the place. While I have my grumblings about HN moderation - or, more specifically, about the use of down-votes for expressing disagreement - this site is not as hostile to those who do not follow the narrative as lobste.rs is - or was, I have not been there for a long time so things could have changed.
bheadmaster 4y ago
> The mod’s response seems fairly reasonable Of course it does, it is in mod's interest to have "reasonable cause" in case things like this end up public. However, there is nothing of sorts even mentioned in the /r/cpp rules: 1. Question/Help Questions and help posts are off-topic for this subreddit. Use r/cpp_questions or StackOverflow instead. 2. Off-topic [empty] The author also posted a counter-example of a Val post that was up, even though it is as much "off-topic" as Circle, based on the mod's argument: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/ypawe2/the_val_object_model_dave_abrahams_sean_parent/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/ypawe2/the_val_object_... Searching further, there seem to be even more not-quite-C++ posts hanging around not getting removed: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/xgcbt9/cppfront_herb_sutters_personal_experimental_c/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/xgcbt9/cppfront_herb_s... https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/r27dea/i_wrote_a_simple_goc_compiler_for_gameplay/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/r27dea/i_wrote_a_simpl... https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/ug90nz/a_ruststyle_borrow_checker_for_c_with_partial/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/ug90nz/a_ruststyle_bor... Based on those facts, I find it fairly plausible that the mod is doing it in bad faith. But Reddit is especially notorius for its mods' powertripping and lack of accountability, so it's nothing new in my book.
- monkpit 4y ago
  I guess my real point is, instead of trying to “expose” the subreddit mod, spend that energy somewhere else and let it go.
  - bheadmaster 4y ago
    I agree with your real point, personally. But also sympathize with the guy. Getting stopped from posting something that you've spent a good deal of time and effort building surely feels bad.
- cmeacham98 4y ago
  The Val post is about the object model and how it relates to (and could be used in a future version of) C++, and is written by major contributors in the C++ space like David Abrahams. OP's post, on the other hand, is blatant promotion of their personal programming language, and I'm not sure why they think it would be allowed on /r/cpp
giancarlostoro 4y ago
Doesnt help they work in a similar space makes it seem deliberately malicious.
unethical_ban 4y ago
I can sympathize with feeling like a moderator of a popular subreddit is suppressing debate/dissent. It is infuriating, especially when conflict of interest is suspected.

cmeacham98 4y ago

Twitter OP seems like they are chomping at the bit for any excuse to play victim related to their personal programming language (err, sorry, I mean C++ compiler extension hosted on a website that ends with -lang.org) https://twitter.com/foonathan/status/1590612183423254528 https://twitter.com/foonathan/status/1590612183423254528

chomp 4y ago

Is it _really_ censorship though? Surely you can see a difference between posting off-topic information, and suppression. I shouldn't be permitted to post e.g. C++ on the C subreddit, because it's not the same thing. The original post was misleading: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/yqjrwx/c_type_erasure_aka_trait_objects_sean_baxter/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/yqjrwx/c_type_erasure_... Circle Lang is a superset of C++. It isn't C++. Maybe you should frame the post as a feature proposal instead of showing something that C++ can't do, and claiming it as C++. If this isn't your post, then I apologize for the assumption. EDIT: Looks like someone's done this already and the post is happy: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/yriwxr/potential_c_extension_for_type_erasure_as_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/yriwxr/potential_c_ext...

bheadmaster 4y ago
It seems like a communication issue. The mod said that the post was removed for being off-topic - when it was clearly removed for having a misleading title. "Removed for being off-topic" would imply that no other posts about the language would be accepted - it is understandable that this caused a bit of anger in the author. "Removed for having a misleading title" would imply that only the misleading title is offending - and that other posts would be accepted, as long as they didn't have a misleading title. I'm sure if the mod explicitly said this, it wouldn't cause this much of a reaction.