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The inclusion of Vlang is interesting. I remember that it was created together with Volt, a multi-service messenger app that never delivered. Is the language an

The inclusion of Vlang is interesting. I remember that it was created together with Volt, a multi-service messenger app that never delivered. Is the language any good, and are there any advantages over more established esoteric systems languages like D, Nim, or Zig?

jonathanstrange 4y ago
From a pure language perspective, not taking into account infrastructure and implementation, Vlang is currently my favorite language. It has pretty much the syntax and semantics I want in a statically compiled, strongly typed language. However, there are still too many features of the current implementations that are in reality not yet implemented or too experimental. It's still not ready for production and larger projects. I'd say the languages you mention are substitutes according to the following mapping: C++ => D Python => Nim C => Zig Go => V
- rmanolis 4y ago
  V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them and people lost trust. If V was truthful like Zig, it would be able to create a foundation. Also a programming language will never be able to substitute another one if it is not able to call its vast number of libraries.
  - jonathanstrange 4y ago
    I agree, the table refers to the intention of the language developers and how the languages feel, it's not about real substitution. For example, D was explicitly designed as a better version of C++ and also allows you to use C++ libraries directly, and Zig is explicitly intended as a modern substitute for C. As for V, it delivers quite well for a language at such an early stage and has a growing community. IMHO, it's a great language.
    - Strum355 4y ago
      Still would not use V myself, its the prime example of overmarketing of impossible features, silencing of critics online etc
      - 10241024 4y ago
  - Tozen 4y ago
    - suprfnk 4y ago
      It might be better now, but these posts from a few years ago painted a very different picture: https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://xeiaso.net/blog/vlang-update-2020-06-17 https://xeiaso.net/blog/vlang-update-2020-06-17 They were doing very level-headed reviews of the language at that time, found that the claims were mostly unsubstantiated, and then got blocked by the V team. That did not inspire confidence at all, as you might imagine. I can completely understand OP when they are saying "V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them and people lost trust." -- that was my view too. ----- Again, it might be better now. The V team might have delivered in the meantime. But I can definitely see where OP is coming from.
      - Tozen 4y ago
        suprfnk 4y ago
        I am not a "sleeper account". I posted a very calm and charitable take on my view, in it explaining that I understand OP's view. Nowhere did I smear the language, or troll, or do anything of the sort. You on the other hand immediately label me as a sleeper account and a troll, for only mentioning a few links to a webpage. Although I can understand being defensive by default if you get trolled a lot, I don't think this is a good way to win people over. It certainly is off-putting to me. ----- But anyway, content related: did Xe/Xena/Christine lie in their blog posts at that time? I've read other blog posts by them and those generally seem to be level headed, well written blog posts -- not spam or anything. Next to checking out the Vlang's website, those blog posts were my only exposure to the language at the time -- as you can imagine for a new language. ----- >> ...and then got blocked by the V team. > This appears to be more trolling, and just distortions or lies, as a setup to unload more spam links and misinformation. Is the image in the tweet in the last post not correct? That Xe got blocked by @v_language? Or is that not the official Twitter account? You have to remember, I'm just an outside observer -- and all I see is a person testing the claims a language does, finding they are mostly unsubstantiated, and getting blocked in the process.
  - 10241024 4y ago
    Since you are comparing Zig with V: > V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them This is wrong. V has an online playground, a package manager, hot code reloading and a REPL whereas Zig doesn't even though Zig is twice as old. > If V was truthful like Zig, it would be able to create a foundation Raising money doesn't lead to adoption, though. By this logic, C isn't truthful either since it doesn't have a foundation. > Also a programming language will never be able to substitute another one if it is not able to call its vast number of libraries How is this relevant? Both Zig and V can call C code and leverage C's ecosystem of libraries.
  - dang 4y ago
    This comment started a hellish flamewar. Please don't start programming language flamewars on HN. Last thing we need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
10241024 4y ago
D and Nim are great mature languages. If you think they're suitable for the domain you're working on and reach out for either of them, you're not gonna go wrong. They have large communities and you'll easily find answers to your questions. I wouldn't call Zig established, though. Zig's compiler still crashes on valid code and compared to V it still doesn't have an online playground, a package manager, hot code reloading, a REPL, etc. even though it's twice as old. V's syntax is similar to Go. However under the hood V differs from Go. For example: - V has compile-time memory management similar to the Lobster programming language. - V has zero-cost interoperability with C. Check it out and decide for yourself. If you already know Go, you can learn V in an afternoon.
goodpoint 4y ago
Nim is very fast but also very expressive. Think of a compiled Python, but with Rust-like safety.

jonathanstrange 4y ago

From a pure language perspective, not taking into account infrastructure and implementation, Vlang is currently my favorite language. It has pretty much the syntax and semantics I want in a statically compiled, strongly typed language. However, there are still too many features of the current implementations that are in reality not yet implemented or too experimental. It's still not ready for production and larger projects. I'd say the languages you mention are substitutes according to the following mapping: C++ => D Python => Nim C => Zig Go => V

rmanolis 4y ago
V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them and people lost trust. If V was truthful like Zig, it would be able to create a foundation. Also a programming language will never be able to substitute another one if it is not able to call its vast number of libraries.
- jonathanstrange 4y ago
  I agree, the table refers to the intention of the language developers and how the languages feel, it's not about real substitution. For example, D was explicitly designed as a better version of C++ and also allows you to use C++ libraries directly, and Zig is explicitly intended as a modern substitute for C. As for V, it delivers quite well for a language at such an early stage and has a growing community. IMHO, it's a great language.
  - Strum355 4y ago
    Still would not use V myself, its the prime example of overmarketing of impossible features, silencing of critics online etc
    - 10241024 4y ago
- Tozen 4y ago
  - suprfnk 4y ago
    It might be better now, but these posts from a few years ago painted a very different picture: https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://xeiaso.net/blog/vlang-update-2020-06-17 https://xeiaso.net/blog/vlang-update-2020-06-17 They were doing very level-headed reviews of the language at that time, found that the claims were mostly unsubstantiated, and then got blocked by the V team. That did not inspire confidence at all, as you might imagine. I can completely understand OP when they are saying "V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them and people lost trust." -- that was my view too. ----- Again, it might be better now. The V team might have delivered in the meantime. But I can definitely see where OP is coming from.
    - Tozen 4y ago
      - suprfnk 4y ago
        I am not a "sleeper account". I posted a very calm and charitable take on my view, in it explaining that I understand OP's view. Nowhere did I smear the language, or troll, or do anything of the sort. You on the other hand immediately label me as a sleeper account and a troll, for only mentioning a few links to a webpage. Although I can understand being defensive by default if you get trolled a lot, I don't think this is a good way to win people over. It certainly is off-putting to me. ----- But anyway, content related: did Xe/Xena/Christine lie in their blog posts at that time? I've read other blog posts by them and those generally seem to be level headed, well written blog posts -- not spam or anything. Next to checking out the Vlang's website, those blog posts were my only exposure to the language at the time -- as you can imagine for a new language. ----- >> ...and then got blocked by the V team. > This appears to be more trolling, and just distortions or lies, as a setup to unload more spam links and misinformation. Is the image in the tweet in the last post not correct? That Xe got blocked by @v_language? Or is that not the official Twitter account? You have to remember, I'm just an outside observer -- and all I see is a person testing the claims a language does, finding they are mostly unsubstantiated, and getting blocked in the process.
- 10241024 4y ago
  Since you are comparing Zig with V: > V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them This is wrong. V has an online playground, a package manager, hot code reloading and a REPL whereas Zig doesn't even though Zig is twice as old. > If V was truthful like Zig, it would be able to create a foundation Raising money doesn't lead to adoption, though. By this logic, C isn't truthful either since it doesn't have a foundation. > Also a programming language will never be able to substitute another one if it is not able to call its vast number of libraries How is this relevant? Both Zig and V can call C code and leverage C's ecosystem of libraries.
- dang 4y ago
  This comment started a hellish flamewar. Please don't start programming language flamewars on HN. Last thing we need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

10241024 4y ago

D and Nim are great mature languages. If you think they're suitable for the domain you're working on and reach out for either of them, you're not gonna go wrong. They have large communities and you'll easily find answers to your questions. I wouldn't call Zig established, though. Zig's compiler still crashes on valid code and compared to V it still doesn't have an online playground, a package manager, hot code reloading, a REPL, etc. even though it's twice as old. V's syntax is similar to Go. However under the hood V differs from Go. For example: - V has compile-time memory management similar to the Lobster programming language. - V has zero-cost interoperability with C. Check it out and decide for yourself. If you already know Go, you can learn V in an afternoon.

goodpoint 4y ago

Nim is very fast but also very expressive. Think of a compiled Python, but with Rust-like safety.