6 ms·

If you’re talking about NATO, that’s a treaty organization that doesn’t include political subservience.

by zen21 4y ago

yogthos 4y ago
I have a bridge to sell you.
- zen21 4y ago
  Statements like that are normally used when no compelling argument is available.
  - yogthos 4y ago
    If Europe committing economic suicide on the behest of the US isn't a compelling argument, I don't know what is.
    - zen21 4y ago
      Europe seems surprisingly alive for someone who has committed ‘suicide’.
      - yogthos 4y ago
        well let's just see how 'alive' Europe is Inflation is in double digits already https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/31/business/economy/eurozone-inflation-gdp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/31/business/economy/eurozone... energy prices are going through the roof https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/10/26/energy-bills-are-soaring-in-europe-what-are-countries-doing-to-help-you-pay-them https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/10/26/energy-bills-are-so... steel mills are shutting down https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-25/european-steelmakers-will-shut-more-furnaces-ssab-ceo-warns https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-25/european-... factories are shutting down https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2022/10/12/europe-s-energy-crisis-risks-forcing-factories-across-the-continent-to-relocate-shut-down_6000015_143.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2022/10/12/europe-s... manufacturing activity is all time low, and now there are talks of deindustrialization https://english.almayadeen.net/news/economics/eu-to-backtrack-to-de-industrialization-due-to-energy-crisis https://english.almayadeen.net/news/economics/eu-to-backtrac... nearly 70% of Europe's ammonia production has been halted since August due to high gas prices, meaning no fertilizer for spring https://www.freshplaza.com/africa/article/9475830/nearly-70-of-europe-s-ammonia-production-has-been-halted-since-august-due-to-high-gas-prices/ https://www.freshplaza.com/africa/article/9475830/nearly-70-... There are strikes and growing protests across many European countries as people are losing their jobs and are no longer able to afford to pay their bills. But yeah, aside from that Europe's totally alive and everything is fine. You clearly have no clue regarding the subject you're attempting to debate here.
        zen21 4y ago
        Economic repercussions of Covid and Putin’s war are to be expected and not ‘suicide’. Reliance on Russian energy was something the US strongly disapproved of.
        yogthos 4y ago
        The economic repercussions are from Europe choosing to cut itself off from Russian energy, 60% of which cannot be replaced. Without Russian energy Europe cannot function, and it was Europe under pressure from US that decided to start the trade war with Russia.
        zen21 4y ago
        You seem to overlook the fact that Europe became dependent on Russian Energy against the wishes of the US. You also seem to have selected an unrepresentative set of scare headlines. Gas prices are in fact plunging in Europe, and the winter is turning out to be unexpectedly mild. https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/26/energy/europe-natural-gas-prices-plunge https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/26/energy/europe-natural-gas-pri... This supposed economic ‘suicide’ seems more like something that exists only in the mind of Vladimir Putin. You also may not be aware that in the 1940’s Europe experienced war on their own territory. I am surprised you haven’t considered that they have their own reasons for wanting to disassociate themselves from Putin’s state. They are either a vassal of the US, or they are not. Clearly, since they only do what the US wants when it suits them, there is no serious argument to be made that they are a vassal.
        yogthos 4y ago
        >You seem to overlook the fact that Europe became dependent on Russian Energy against the wishes of the US. And you seem to overlook the fact that US has been continuously interfering in European politics to force Europe to stop using Russian energy against its interests. Now, US has finally accomplished that. >You also seem to have selected an unrepresentative set of scare headlines. The articles I linked are very much representative, and talk about large scale systemic problems Europe is experiencing due to lack of available energy. >Gas prices are in fact plunging in Europe, and the winter is turning out to be unexpectedly mild. Now there's an example of an unrepresentative headline. The context there was that gas prices dropped because there aren't enough LNG terminals in Europe to unload the gas. It's not for lack of demand. Thanks for once again confirming you don't understand the subject you're opining on. >You also may not be aware that in the 1940’s Europe experienced war on their own territory. I am surprised you haven’t considered that they have their own reasons for wanting to disassociate themselves from Putin’s state. That's a nonsensical statement. Creating tensions with Russia does not help Europe in any way. The way to avoid conflict is by creating economic ties and a mutually beneficial relationship. The only country that does not benefit from that is the US. >They are either a vassal of the US, or they are not. Clearly, since they only do what the US wants when it suits them, there is no serious argument to be made that they are a vassal. That's not how the real world works child.

If you’re talking about NATO, that’s a treaty organization that doesn’t include political subservience.

by zen21 4y ago

If you’re talking about NATO, that’s a treaty organization that doesn’t include political subservience.

yogthos 4y ago

I have a bridge to sell you.

zen21 4y ago
Statements like that are normally used when no compelling argument is available.
- yogthos 4y ago
  If Europe committing economic suicide on the behest of the US isn't a compelling argument, I don't know what is.
  - zen21 4y ago
    Europe seems surprisingly alive for someone who has committed ‘suicide’.
    - yogthos 4y ago
      well let's just see how 'alive' Europe is Inflation is in double digits already https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/31/business/economy/eurozone-inflation-gdp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/31/business/economy/eurozone... energy prices are going through the roof https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/10/26/energy-bills-are-soaring-in-europe-what-are-countries-doing-to-help-you-pay-them https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/10/26/energy-bills-are-so... steel mills are shutting down https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-25/european-steelmakers-will-shut-more-furnaces-ssab-ceo-warns https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-25/european-... factories are shutting down https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2022/10/12/europe-s-energy-crisis-risks-forcing-factories-across-the-continent-to-relocate-shut-down_6000015_143.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2022/10/12/europe-s... manufacturing activity is all time low, and now there are talks of deindustrialization https://english.almayadeen.net/news/economics/eu-to-backtrack-to-de-industrialization-due-to-energy-crisis https://english.almayadeen.net/news/economics/eu-to-backtrac... nearly 70% of Europe's ammonia production has been halted since August due to high gas prices, meaning no fertilizer for spring https://www.freshplaza.com/africa/article/9475830/nearly-70-of-europe-s-ammonia-production-has-been-halted-since-august-due-to-high-gas-prices/ https://www.freshplaza.com/africa/article/9475830/nearly-70-... There are strikes and growing protests across many European countries as people are losing their jobs and are no longer able to afford to pay their bills. But yeah, aside from that Europe's totally alive and everything is fine. You clearly have no clue regarding the subject you're attempting to debate here.
      - zen21 4y ago
        Economic repercussions of Covid and Putin’s war are to be expected and not ‘suicide’. Reliance on Russian energy was something the US strongly disapproved of.
        yogthos 4y ago
        The economic repercussions are from Europe choosing to cut itself off from Russian energy, 60% of which cannot be replaced. Without Russian energy Europe cannot function, and it was Europe under pressure from US that decided to start the trade war with Russia.
        zen21 4y ago
        You seem to overlook the fact that Europe became dependent on Russian Energy against the wishes of the US. You also seem to have selected an unrepresentative set of scare headlines. Gas prices are in fact plunging in Europe, and the winter is turning out to be unexpectedly mild. https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/26/energy/europe-natural-gas-prices-plunge https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/26/energy/europe-natural-gas-pri... This supposed economic ‘suicide’ seems more like something that exists only in the mind of Vladimir Putin. You also may not be aware that in the 1940’s Europe experienced war on their own territory. I am surprised you haven’t considered that they have their own reasons for wanting to disassociate themselves from Putin’s state. They are either a vassal of the US, or they are not. Clearly, since they only do what the US wants when it suits them, there is no serious argument to be made that they are a vassal.
        yogthos 4y ago
        >You seem to overlook the fact that Europe became dependent on Russian Energy against the wishes of the US. And you seem to overlook the fact that US has been continuously interfering in European politics to force Europe to stop using Russian energy against its interests. Now, US has finally accomplished that. >You also seem to have selected an unrepresentative set of scare headlines. The articles I linked are very much representative, and talk about large scale systemic problems Europe is experiencing due to lack of available energy. >Gas prices are in fact plunging in Europe, and the winter is turning out to be unexpectedly mild. Now there's an example of an unrepresentative headline. The context there was that gas prices dropped because there aren't enough LNG terminals in Europe to unload the gas. It's not for lack of demand. Thanks for once again confirming you don't understand the subject you're opining on. >You also may not be aware that in the 1940’s Europe experienced war on their own territory. I am surprised you haven’t considered that they have their own reasons for wanting to disassociate themselves from Putin’s state. That's a nonsensical statement. Creating tensions with Russia does not help Europe in any way. The way to avoid conflict is by creating economic ties and a mutually beneficial relationship. The only country that does not benefit from that is the US. >They are either a vassal of the US, or they are not. Clearly, since they only do what the US wants when it suits them, there is no serious argument to be made that they are a vassal. That's not how the real world works child.