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Solar cars are scam. They are designed to get funding out of investors with poor understanding of technology. Do some basic math. The electric energy harvested

Solar cars are scam. They are designed to get funding out of investors with poor understanding of technology. Do some basic math. The electric energy harvested with the solar panels is negligible for transportation. And why should we want to move around solar power plants? It makes much more sense to have them stationary. And to connect them to the power grid to sell the energy to others when the sun shines but the batteries are full.

incomingpain 4y ago
>Solar cars are scam. They are designed to get funding out of investors with poor understanding of technology. They certainly exist, it's just not the performance numbers people want from their vehicle. >Do some basic math. The electric energy harvested with the solar panels is negligible for transportation. Thats not true; and also depends on your usecase. Aptera is certainly going to come to market with a product for example, but does your usecase allow a 2 seat death trap? What if you have to have a baby seat? Surely nobody is putting children in it. But if you're a bachelor looking to reduce your cost of transportation to 0. Damn what a good option. >And why should we want to move around solar power plants? It makes much more sense to have them stationary. And to connect them to the power grid to sell the energy to others when the sun shines but the batteries are full. 1kw on your car is hardly comparable to a major solar array. By the same argument you can deny any solar purpose. Which isn't reasonable to many use cases.
- eloff 4y ago
  Give me a cheap EV glued together in India out of plastic parts rather. Or a nice e-bike. The solar on the car is just a gimmick. Put the solar on my roof rather.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  > > And why should we want to move around solar power plants? It makes much more sense to have them stationary. And to connect them to the power grid to sell the energy to others when the sun shines but the batteries are full. > "[...] By the same argument you can deny any solar purpose." I don't follow. Can you expand on this line of reasoning?
- timbit42 4y ago
  What makes you think the Aptera is a death trap? It's made out of carbon fibre.
  - incomingpain 4y ago
    >What makes you think the Aptera is a death trap? It's made out of carbon fibre. Said carbon fibre is not going to save you from a 80,000lb overloaded dump truck.
    - timbit42 4y ago
      Being in an SUV won't save you from that either.
andrewmutz 4y ago
Its a $30K car with a range of 190 miles and can charge itself 40 miles a day in optimal conditions. I live in southern california and I drive about 20 miles a day under normal conditions. Today I have solar panels on my house and a plug-in electric car, but I think the value proposition of a $30K car that I never need to plug in or refuel (during normal conditions) is pretty compelling. The solar panels on my home can spend time offsetting the rest of my lifestyle
- dougmwne 4y ago
  Outside of the geeky cool factor, what precisely is the value proposition? You say you have solar on your house. So is it that you don't have to remember to plug in? Is that a big deal for most people? What if there was some kind of auto-connect when you pulled into your parking spot? Would that be better than carrying around solar panels that don't point at the sun? I read through the absolute technical limits of solar cars once and promptly crossed the idea off in my head. Might as well just have 1000w of folding panels in your trunk that you can set out if you really need off grid charging.
  - cwkoss 4y ago
    Most renters have little control of whether they have access to an EV hookup. This opens up the market to street parkers in the right climates.
    - dougmwne 4y ago
      I suppose I could imagine a scenario where maybe a city dweller who doesn't drive much could street park and they could do their grocery runs and occasional running around from the solar self-charge. Then you would be looking at less trips to the public charger. It's probably pretty common in Manhattan to do less than 10 miles a day so you'd only end up at the public charger when the weather was bad. Ok I'm sold on that scenario.
      - cwkoss 4y ago
colechristensen 4y ago
Over the last 14 years I have driven less than 22 miles per day on average. Considerably less if you cut out long road trips and the six months i commuted 80 miles per day. A solar car with these specs would easily have handled my driving needs without charging on 90% of my days in the last decade, likely considerably more.
Retric 4y ago
The advantage of a solar car has little to do with saving trivial amounts of electricity. IMO, the best use case is for a hybrid which isn’t generally plugged in as now you’re saving gasoline which could quickly pay for the panels. More widely for EV, there is no need to worry how much charge you lose when parked for long periods. Not needing to worry about running the heater or AC during a traffic jam. Being less dependent on the electric grid during a natural disaster is an edge case, but still very real. Less real but still marketable is the prepper end of civilization argument. And of course long term things start looking even more interesting as panels improve.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Why would the panels improve? Monocrystalline silicon cell efficiency has been about the same since the 90s: 15-20% for commercial cells, up to 26% in the lab.
  - Retric 4y ago
    The article mentions the Sion is using lower efficiency polymer-based cells integrated into its body panels. But also the curved panels ideal for aerodynamics means a real tradeoff, as current curved panels have poor efficiency. Right now nobody is going to heavily invest in solar car R&D, but if this becomes a common feature the simple desire for longer solar ranges is going to push efficiency.
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      In their own marketing materials they say that they are using monocrystalline cells. However, there is no reason to take any of these statements seriously as the whole operation is transparently a scam. https://sonomotors.com/site/assets/files/1621/informationssheet_sion_1.pdf#page=8 https://sonomotors.com/site/assets/files/1621/informationssh...
      - Retric 4y ago
        Ahh, fair enough the pride seemed unreasonably low. Though the reason they mention it is still valid even if they might be a scam.

incomingpain 4y ago

>Solar cars are scam. They are designed to get funding out of investors with poor understanding of technology. They certainly exist, it's just not the performance numbers people want from their vehicle. >Do some basic math. The electric energy harvested with the solar panels is negligible for transportation. Thats not true; and also depends on your usecase. Aptera is certainly going to come to market with a product for example, but does your usecase allow a 2 seat death trap? What if you have to have a baby seat? Surely nobody is putting children in it. But if you're a bachelor looking to reduce your cost of transportation to 0. Damn what a good option. >And why should we want to move around solar power plants? It makes much more sense to have them stationary. And to connect them to the power grid to sell the energy to others when the sun shines but the batteries are full. 1kw on your car is hardly comparable to a major solar array. By the same argument you can deny any solar purpose. Which isn't reasonable to many use cases.

eloff 4y ago
Give me a cheap EV glued together in India out of plastic parts rather. Or a nice e-bike. The solar on the car is just a gimmick. Put the solar on my roof rather.
MichaelCollins 4y ago
> > And why should we want to move around solar power plants? It makes much more sense to have them stationary. And to connect them to the power grid to sell the energy to others when the sun shines but the batteries are full. > "[...] By the same argument you can deny any solar purpose." I don't follow. Can you expand on this line of reasoning?
timbit42 4y ago
What makes you think the Aptera is a death trap? It's made out of carbon fibre.
- incomingpain 4y ago
  >What makes you think the Aptera is a death trap? It's made out of carbon fibre. Said carbon fibre is not going to save you from a 80,000lb overloaded dump truck.
  - timbit42 4y ago
    Being in an SUV won't save you from that either.

andrewmutz 4y ago

Its a $30K car with a range of 190 miles and can charge itself 40 miles a day in optimal conditions. I live in southern california and I drive about 20 miles a day under normal conditions. Today I have solar panels on my house and a plug-in electric car, but I think the value proposition of a $30K car that I never need to plug in or refuel (during normal conditions) is pretty compelling. The solar panels on my home can spend time offsetting the rest of my lifestyle

dougmwne 4y ago
Outside of the geeky cool factor, what precisely is the value proposition? You say you have solar on your house. So is it that you don't have to remember to plug in? Is that a big deal for most people? What if there was some kind of auto-connect when you pulled into your parking spot? Would that be better than carrying around solar panels that don't point at the sun? I read through the absolute technical limits of solar cars once and promptly crossed the idea off in my head. Might as well just have 1000w of folding panels in your trunk that you can set out if you really need off grid charging.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  Most renters have little control of whether they have access to an EV hookup. This opens up the market to street parkers in the right climates.
  - dougmwne 4y ago
    I suppose I could imagine a scenario where maybe a city dweller who doesn't drive much could street park and they could do their grocery runs and occasional running around from the solar self-charge. Then you would be looking at less trips to the public charger. It's probably pretty common in Manhattan to do less than 10 miles a day so you'd only end up at the public charger when the weather was bad. Ok I'm sold on that scenario.
    - cwkoss 4y ago

colechristensen 4y ago

Over the last 14 years I have driven less than 22 miles per day on average. Considerably less if you cut out long road trips and the six months i commuted 80 miles per day. A solar car with these specs would easily have handled my driving needs without charging on 90% of my days in the last decade, likely considerably more.

Retric 4y ago

The advantage of a solar car has little to do with saving trivial amounts of electricity. IMO, the best use case is for a hybrid which isn’t generally plugged in as now you’re saving gasoline which could quickly pay for the panels. More widely for EV, there is no need to worry how much charge you lose when parked for long periods. Not needing to worry about running the heater or AC during a traffic jam. Being less dependent on the electric grid during a natural disaster is an edge case, but still very real. Less real but still marketable is the prepper end of civilization argument. And of course long term things start looking even more interesting as panels improve.

jeffbee 4y ago
Why would the panels improve? Monocrystalline silicon cell efficiency has been about the same since the 90s: 15-20% for commercial cells, up to 26% in the lab.
- Retric 4y ago
  The article mentions the Sion is using lower efficiency polymer-based cells integrated into its body panels. But also the curved panels ideal for aerodynamics means a real tradeoff, as current curved panels have poor efficiency. Right now nobody is going to heavily invest in solar car R&D, but if this becomes a common feature the simple desire for longer solar ranges is going to push efficiency.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    In their own marketing materials they say that they are using monocrystalline cells. However, there is no reason to take any of these statements seriously as the whole operation is transparently a scam. https://sonomotors.com/site/assets/files/1621/informationssheet_sion_1.pdf#page=8 https://sonomotors.com/site/assets/files/1621/informationssh...
    - Retric 4y ago
      Ahh, fair enough the pride seemed unreasonably low. Though the reason they mention it is still valid even if they might be a scam.