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Crypto.com Halts Solana USDC and USDT Withdrawals
- woeirua 4y agoWe're starting to see the cascade of exchange failures, just like we saw in 2008 with the banks during the GFC. The exchanges all made loans to one another in order to backstop their customer's assets. Now that the value of those loans are evaporating the entire system is going to come crashing down all at once. This is a systemic crisis, and there is no white knight to save it.
- _qqm5 4y agoThere's a beautiful difference. Unlike in 2008, today - I can transact efficiently and safely without a bank account. This is currently not possible in traditional finance - Subsequently, none of my assets are locked. I have never stored assets in an exchange, and have no need to do so. - Exchanges can't ask daddy government to mint coins for a bailout. Tl;dr: exchanges and banks who think they can get away with being overleveraged, doing unbacked derivatives trading, lending without locates etc. are in for a bitter surprise. Crypto can't be gamed so easily and it shows.
- twblalock 4y agoThe problem is, if these exchanges collapse, the value of that crypto you have will drop significantly. So yes, you still have your crypto assets, but there is a real chance they could end up being worthless. Even if you don't use exchanges, you are still exposed to their failure because they are major players in the market that determines the value of the cryptocurrencies. When major players in a market go bust, it's unlikely that any of the other market participants will end up unscathed. Given that crypto value is based solely on what other people are willing to pay for it, it really could go to zero. It probably won't go all the way to zero, but I'd still expect a significant drop.
- _qqm5 4y agoThis indicates that the value was propped up by market manipulation. I have no problem with a crash like this, as I have no exposure to centralized * exchanges. I also don't have illusions about price action. I don't invest into crypto to make a quick buck. I invest because I fundamentally oppose traditional finance.
- twblalock 4y agoReally, no exposure to centralized finance? You only use crypto to pay your rent and buy your groceries and your clothing? Your employer pays you in crypto?
- _qqm5 4y agoMy bad, I meant centralized exchanges, not finance. Edited my comment. > You only use crypto to pay your rent and buy your groceries and your clothing? Your employer pays you in crypto? Oh how I wish that was true.
- MrMan 4y agocrypto *is* traditional finance. whenever humans transact with each other, we reify the behavioral mechanisms which define us as a species. we cannot help but create economies, to trade and transact. all finance is "traditional" finance until our biology changes and new emergent dynamics and equilibriums establish themselves. however thermodynamics, statistics and other math might also have a lot to say on the matter. there is no such thing as traditional finance, just finance.
- woeirua 4y agoOwning coins that can't be exchanged for anything is kind of a pointless endeavor, is it not? The value of most coins is going to zero as a result of this. Crypto is going to be a frigid wasteland after this for quite a while.
- _qqm5 4y agoThere are tons of vendors I actively use that accept crypto. Not as much as I'd like, but hardly no one. But yeah, you're right, a currency nobody uses is obviously worthless. I'm attempting to drive adoption so that they CAN be exchanged for goods and services.
- vermilingua 4y agoAnd when the mom-and-pop bookstore down the road can no longer exchange their crypto for fiat (needed to pay their taxes), do you think they’ll keep accepting your crypto?
- landemva 4y agoIt depends on the government. "Crypto Currency Now Accepted For All State Tax Payments" https://tax.colorado.gov/cryptocurrency https://tax.colorado.gov/cryptocurrency
- selectodude 4y ago"A sufficient amount of cryptocurrency to cover the tax, obligation and fees is converted to dollars" No it doesn't. Your crypto is not and will not be denominated in crypto. It's still dollars.
- mikeyouse 4y agoGood proxy for the promise and reality of crypto though - you need to interact with some shitty PayPal crypto platform and they charge you charge 1.8% for the luxury of doing so.
- machina_ex_deus 4y agoYou sound just like one of those house owners with a fat mortgage on the eve of 2008. When you buy an asset from heavily leveraged market you get high risk even when you don't use leverage yourself.
- _qqm5 4y agoThe crypto I buy is not leveraged, it's sitting in my wallet - unlike IOUs, stocks and derivatives. In crypto, leverage exists solely because of people who aren't doing self-custody and DeFi. They brought this upon themselves.
- Forgeties79 4y agoGenuine question: what are you doing with that crypto anyway if not planning on cashing out back into fiat currency again? My understanding is that the vast majority of cryptos are useless for actually paying for anything and the vast majority of businesses still don’t accept them anyway. So unless you are basically only using and holding BTC (which has a relatively small market of goods that can actually be purchased with it on a daily basis), I’m not really sure what good that crypto is doing for you other than sitting around as a speculative asset which will need to be converted via an exchange.
- _qqm5 4y agoGenuine answer: I'm holding my crypto assets until I can exchange them for the goods and services I need. I never exchange any crypto back to fiat. I don't "invest" to make money. It's a currency. I buy it to use it. I might have to hold it for 5 years, maybe 10, maybe 30, or maybe I'll die and crypto will never be successful (a sad thought but possible). But in the meantime I'll do what I can to improve adoption. That includes working on core protocols, improving UX for non-technical users, or writing software that helps vendors with payment integration. I also make an effort to approach business and show that there is demand for crypto payments. This is literally the only way to make crypto successful. All this price action non-sense, and people wanting to get fiat-rich is just unproductive noise to me.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoI'm curious because a lot of this started (in the short term) with Binance dumping their FTT. Just yesterday it looked like a "4D chess move" because then Binance could acquire FTX for next to nothing. Now I'm curious if Binance just tipped over the gasoline can that can finally set this whole shitshow of uselessness ablaze, but potentially taking down Binance with it.
- throwwawayyt 4y agoThey got lost in their 4d chess maybe. Haha
- twblalock 4y agoI'm not sure why the CEO of Binance would have wanted to acquire FTX if he really thought it was in such a bad state internally that it made sense to sell his holdings in FTT. I could buy the idea that he wanted to hurt FTX with his tweet, but things quickly escalated out of control. I also think the offer to buy FTX was motivated by a desire to avoid a broad crypto collapse which would hurt Binance along with everybody else. But that offer had to be withdrawn because things got so bad. Now everybody involved is worse off than they were before, a lot of customers might lose money, and there is a pretty good chance that regulators and governments are going to get more involved in the crypto market in response. If this was planned in advance, it was not 4D chess, it was just a really bad plan.
- roganp 4y agoAnd also: at the time of Binance's offer to buy FTX, it makes sense only if Binance saw significant contagion risks to FTX's failure. But then they got a little closer and saw the huge hole in FTX's balance sheet and decided that they couldn't do that either. So it's really the worst outcome - they signal that FTX is important to their own business, but then can't do anything to save it. Does not seem to be good news for Binance.
- buitreVirtual 4y agoBinance already knew that there was a hole there. They had just triggered the bank run by calling it out. The attempt to bail out FTX later was only for saving face and maybe also because they freaked out but couldn't stop it at that point.
- Kukumber 4y agoexchange failure? this is a very small player with $500m daily volume only it's a noise https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/crypto-com-exchange https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/crypto-com-exchange it's the failure of all the suspicious exchanges for sure
- majormajor 4y agoIt's a "very small player" that has their name plastered on one of the most prominent arenas in the United States. (FTX also had their name on another arena, for that matter!) It's quite possible that the public perception poison will be way worse than any collapses themselves because these players have tried so hard to associate themselves with crypto in the public eye.
- princevegeta89 4y agoWell said. Crypto is nobody's business. And when people lose their assets, it's still nobody's business.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> cascade of exchange failures, just like we saw in 2008 They are related in both being cascading crises of confidence. ‘08 manifested from a novel opacity around correlation (lack of centralised counterparty reporting) from novel non-bank banks (shadow banks). This is just a three-point recursion cycle: FTX, FTT and Alameda.
- dehrmann 4y ago> This is a systemic crisis, and there is no white knight to save it. Fortunately, unlike 2008, the global economy doesn't depend on this stuff working.
- bittytitty 4y agoBitcoin and it's technology isn't going anywhere. The rest of the world is too invested in it for it to disappear. Just wait it out. It will be fine. "Many shall be restored that now are fallen and many shall fall that now are in honor" -Horace
- m00x 4y ago"When the gamblers have their fortunes fall apart in front of their eyes, they will come out with the biggest copes." - Michael Scott
- booleandilemma 4y agoI'm assuming the government will just bail out everyone who loses money through crypto with my tax dollars. It'll be fine, nothing to worry about.
- SkyMarshal 4y agoCrypto isn't systemically important, that won't happen.
- dehrmann 4y agoAfter the student loan bailout, who knows?
- Georgelemental 4y agoHolders of cryptocurrency aren't an essential constituency in the coalition that keeps the US ruling party in power.
- guelo 4y agoWhen FTX and Crypto.com have to give up their sports arena naming rights it will be great PR to the population at large to stay away from crypto.
- giarc 4y agoThe old saying goes, when you are getting stock tips from your cab driver, get out of the market. Maybe the same should be true for arena's. When your local arena is named after a crypto site, sell your coins.
- dehrmann 4y agoI'm also thinking to Super Bowl commercials. Pets.com and Crypto ones.
- Havoc 4y agoIt’s fine Solana guys can always just centrally restart their blockchain
- m00x 4y agoWindowsCoin - Just reboot it.
- SergeAx 4y agoWhat I really wonder a lot is who will left with the money when the music stops and the tide goes out. Early adopters? Crypto mining hardware manufacturers? Electricity companies? Generation machinery manufacturers? Lambos and mansions and even jets of lucky crypto bros are just a small change on how much dough was buried in all the crypto schemes of the world.
- olliej 4y agoTraditionally this foreshadows an exchange going bust, is that what is happening here?
- _3u10 4y agoThe exchange is going bust. Well the coin is going bust unable to maintain the peg. Think the end of Bretonwoods but for crypto. I’ve never understood stablecoins it’s as dumb as a USD ETF
- LudwigNagasena 4y agoStablecoins simplify cryptotrading as there is no involvement of cash anymore.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- LegitShady 4y agounderstanding stablecoins is really simple. "how do i convert crypto assets into USD without triggering a taxable event?" the answer was create a stablecoin where you for sure have $1 for each coin so you can always exchange your crypto for dollars. the problem is all these shady crypto finance people are busy making money off of stablecoins and hoping nobody catches them without enough cash on hand since they invested the USD into assets instead of just holding cash, or when the value went up they minted more stablecoin to sell off and now that the price of the stablecoin is down they don't have the ability to cover their liabilities. The basic idea to protect against taxes, the extended idea is to enrich every grifter around.
- dragonwriter 4y ago> "how do i convert crypto assets into USD without triggering a taxable event?" You don’t: “Taxable gain or loss may result from transactions including, but not limited to: [...] Exchange or trade of one digital asset for another digital asset.” [0] You can't hack around taxable events by avoiding exchange into fiat. [0] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/frequently-asked-questions-on-virtual-currency-transactions https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/freq...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ricardobayes 4y agoI'm just spitballing, but we don't yet know the full effects of FTX folding. We don't know who holds what where.
- noveltyaccount 4y agoI've said to friends: the pin's out of the grenade. We'll see what happens next.
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoI would say bitcoin crashing 12.5% today is one effect.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- stephc_int13 4y agoThe day is not over yet. I wish I had popcorn.
- londons_explore 4y ago12% isn't an unusual day for cryptocurrency. 80% is newsworthy.
- sharkjacobs 4y agoI have no idea if this is a frank and earnest assessment or baseless hyperbole, how many times has the price of bitcoin moved >=12% in 24 hours? Has it ever moved 80% in one day? edit: What I want to run an analysis of the actual data but I did the "next best thing" which is googleing around and reading arbitrary articles, and what I've found is -22% on 15 January 2015 +28% on a single unspecified day in July 2017 +~25% on 7 December 2017 +~20% on 1st April 2019 I'm sure I've missed some, and there are other, possibly more dramatic spikes and crashes, that happen over longer periods, but this is enough for me to say that a 12% swing in one day is newsworthy, but not frontpage newsworthy
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- TSiege 4y ago"Solana’s native SOL token suffered as a result of FTX’s collapse, dropping over 40% on Wednesday at a price of $14.37. This is 92% below its price from a year ago." I looked it up and it was trading for $230.23 on Nov 9, 2021. As of posting this comment it's at $13.16
- TechBro8615 4y agoBack in the day, SOL used to stand for "shit outta luck"
- evronm 4y agoWhat's old is new again. I think this qualifies as poetic justice?
- DonHopkins 4y agoGood thing I invested heavily in ITYS.
- stavros 4y agoApparently, it still does.
- largepeepee 4y agoSeeing your name greyed out within a few mins, guess you hit a nerve with the HN SOL peeps.
- stavros 4y agoOuch, it would appear so, though I'm at 1 now.
- tell3 4y agoIdgi, the Solana network functions normal, and SOL is not intimately tied to FTX. They only reason they would do this imo, is if Crypto.com itself has problems (they want to slow withdrawals?). What am I missing here?
- sumeno 4y agoThe answer to your question is in your post
- Animats 4y ago"More than 18 million coins worth approximately $320 million will hit the cryptocurrency market in the next 24 hours after they are released from staking. ... In addition to the aforementioned 18 million SOL, the market should be ready for a 1.7 million Solend whale liquidation; the whale borrowed 30 million USDC against his two million SOL collateral. A total of 96.7% of his loan is backed by the cryptocurrency that is rapidly losing value on the market right now. Technically, liquidation has been triggered already, and the borrow utilization greatly exceeded the liquidation threshold by more than 50%..."[1] And that's just stuff that's publicly known. [1] https://u.today/320-million-in-solana-will-hit-market-in-24-hours-get-ready https://u.today/320-million-in-solana-will-hit-market-in-24-...
- tell3 4y agoThat's not really related.
- nailer 4y agoA2K mentioned this in his live a few mins ago but FTX had less than 5% of Sol. Fundamentals remain solid.
- gitfan86 4y agoWhat? All of crypto is Fundamentally based on more money coming into the ecosystem. It is all cashflow negative.
- nailer 4y agoSo asset classes depend on demand? Well done for understanding this. Not sure why you're picking on digital currency though.
- gitfan86 4y agoNo, cashflow positive assets generate returns. The idea that a cashflow positive asset could have no demand means that the dividend yield could be infinity. Which is a ridiculous idea. On the other hand a cashflow negative asset like crypto can easily go to zero when the demand is at or below the cashflow cost.
- nailer 4y agoWhy is cryptocurrency mysteriously unique in not being able to generate cash flow? I can use cryptocurrency as gold, as cash, as a savings account, or artwork, all of which very obviously generate returns.
- paulpauper 4y agoAnd there goes 16k. We're seeing the dominoes fall before our eyes. crazy
- eddsh1994 4y agoI didn’t buy it at £400 once because it had fallen so much from £1,000. I wouldn’t be surprised if it goes up again when people look to alternative sources of income to offset inflation.
- Retric 4y agoNegative sum games need new suckers to prop up returns. I doubt there is that many people willing to jump in that haven’t already been burned.
- Animatronio 4y agoYeah, smart move - lose 15% a day, rather than 9% a year through inflation.
- SantalBlush 4y agoPeople bought cryptocoins in 2021 to "offset inflation". That did not go well for them. I think we can safely put the claims about crypto offsetting inflation to rest.
- eddsh1994 4y agoRationally yes, but people are irrational and things like r/wsb show you irrational can get momentum. I’m probably 80% sure there will be another bull run in the coming years. Even if it’s as trivial as crypto being 5% of its all time high and people decide it’s worth a go just in case, creating its own run.
- UncleMeat 4y agoThe past year has demonstrated pretty clearly that BTC is not an inflation hedge.
- 4y ago
- andrewstuart 4y agoAnother crypto crash? I'm surprised anyone would have serious money still in crypto after the last megacrash, which came after the previous crypto crash.
- yieldcrv 4y agobecause everyone following the best practices is unscathed. everyone had a choice to just never touch TerraLuna. everyone had a choice to not keep their funds on exchanges. I'll give some sympathy to custodial smart contracts being drained and advertised as non-custodial, a legal distinction that has little practical distinction for the user except unlimited amounts and no permission needed to use. But you didn't have to use those either. and overcollateralized stablecoins type fiat are still fine (for now) and overcollateralized stablecoins type crypto are still fine with redemptions functioning smoothly through pretty amazing stress tests other kinds of stablecoins are the ones that actually have implosions and make the news, with the notable exception and danger of Tether which still have passed every stress test despite such a large attack surface being consistently attacked by state actors very publicly regardless, it has been entirely possible to have stable value in crypto the whole time, and in fact that's where a majority of the capital is, far beyond any hacks, exploits and exchange implosions. overcollateralized stablecoins are still $120bn and has been a steady amount for the past year. redemptions go well when desired, people just don't desire. and then for the people that actually have the risk profile for volatile assets and self-custody those assets? they're fine too. let the VC and bankruptcy trustees fire-sale, let everything trade for another 90% discount, that's not controversial, commodities trade like that, digital commodities are trading similarly.
- machina_ex_deus 4y agoYou're cute. In the end of the day this entire shenanigan is a game of musical chairs and as every chair is taken out, you should be more anxious to sit down quickly before the music stops. The actual details hardly matter, this is a game played only by investors, and money is slowly draining. Nobody is inserting new chairs into your musical game, only new participants with their own chairs. Unlike musical chairs, you can leave right now.
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoI have a prediction for all of you here: Bitcoin at 1000 by March 1st.
- CyberDildonics 4y agoTime to prove everyone how smart you are and make lots of money at the same time. https://www.investopedia.com/news/short-bitcoin/ https://www.investopedia.com/news/short-bitcoin/
- low_tech_love 4y agoOh man I wish I had the balls to do it.
- koolba 4y agoThe smarter bet is to provide the balls but have someone else provide the funds.
- woeirua 4y agoI'll one up you: Bitcoin at zero by March 1st. This crash is going to take down USDT/Binance and the entire ecosystem around it.
- renewiltord 4y agoIf you're in SF, I'll happily do an OTC deal with you.
- eloff 4y agoI highly doubt it, but it's not impossible. Bitcoin doesn't really have any intrinsic value to provide a floor for the price. It's all technicals, all perception.
- eddsh1994 4y agoI’d take that bet!
- adrr 4y agoWhy both deposits and withdrawals? They risk spooking their customers by preventing withdrawals. If you wanted to mitigate risk, wouldn't you just prevent deposits/buys?
- stusmall 4y agoBecause what their customers are afraid of might be true, they don't have the assets.
- geerlingguy 4y agoTrying to prevent a bank run, most likely. And/or they don't have the cash to survive even a small selloff.
- zmaurelius 4y agoAt the end of day, this entire fiasco really drives home the point if its not your keys its not your coins. Shady exchanges/banks can always collapse and take your entire portfolio with it, but if you have a securely backed up wallet, then your coins will be untouchable no matter what kind of shady shenanigans goes down in the wider cryptocurrency landscape.
- camjw 4y agoSure, you still have your coins, but who cares if they’re worthless? I’m not sure “not your keys, not your wallet” is really the message to take away from ~Celcius~ ~Terra~ ~TAC~ FTX.
- zmaurelius 4y agoI think people are too hyper focused on the price aspect of cryptocurrencies. The experiment that is Bitcoin shows that people do not need to rely on a monetary system where a cabal of rich and powerful individuals can arbitrarily modify the money supply without any regard to all the participants in that monetary system. The genie is already out of the bottle and there is no way to put it back. There will always be those especially in the younger generations that want something better than the current system. Bitcoin shows that you can have a completely transparent monetary system based on code that is available to be audited by anyone. Bitcoin may or may not survive, but the idea behind it will.
- twblalock 4y agoWhat this has also shown is that most people (literally almost everyone) are better off relying on the traditional financial system.
- camjw 4y ago> There will always be those especially in the younger generations that want something better than the current system. Sure, this isn't it though.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
- jti107 4y agothere better not be any government bailouts...people/companies need to accept the risks/rewards for using DeFi