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> ... when there isn’t place in the real world even for the largest one? Uh, go visit El Salvador. Every MacDonalds, every Starbucks, and tons of local busines

> ... when there isn’t place in the real world even for the largest one? Uh, go visit El Salvador. Every MacDonalds, every Starbucks, and tons of local businesses accept "the largest one." That's because bitcoin stands apart, in terms of its real decentralization, and therefore its independence and utility. Give it time, and it will become far more useful than it already is. The dollar may eventually refer not to a specific weight of gold (that's what the term 'dollar' originally meant), but to a specific number of satoshis.

MrRadar 4y ago
Business in El Salvador do not accept Bitcoin because it is superior (or even equivalent) to fiat, but because they are forced to by the government. I do not see how that is a point in favor of Bitcoin having a place in this world.
czhu12 4y ago
Uninformed on this, but if thats true does that mean that a $3 starbucks coffee paid for in bitcoin would incur a $1 bitcoin network fee? So likes 33% more expensive? Or is there some system that el salvador developed that acts as a clearinghouse?
- MrRadar 4y ago
  El Salvador has their own national wallet app called Chivo. I would be surprised if El Salvadorans regularly use the actual Bitcoin blockchain (as opposed to just shuffling BTC between Chivo accounts) due to the huge and inflexible fees for on-chain transactions.
- ruiseal 4y ago
  On chain fees are usually not more than $0.50 but if you paid on-chain (regular bitcoin transaction) then you'd be paying that (and have to wait 10 minutes for the confirmation). But most transactional purchases are done on lightning, a layer 2 system, which are virtually instant and very low in fees (like a cent or two).
anderskaseorg 4y ago
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/el-salvadors-bitcoin-holdings-down-60percent-to-60-million-one-year-later.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/el-salvadors-bitcoin-holding... shows a pretty different picture of both the prevalence and the usefulness of Bitcoin in El Salvador.

MrRadar 4y ago

Business in El Salvador do not accept Bitcoin because it is superior (or even equivalent) to fiat, but because they are forced to by the government. I do not see how that is a point in favor of Bitcoin having a place in this world.

czhu12 4y ago

Uninformed on this, but if thats true does that mean that a $3 starbucks coffee paid for in bitcoin would incur a $1 bitcoin network fee? So likes 33% more expensive? Or is there some system that el salvador developed that acts as a clearinghouse?

MrRadar 4y ago
El Salvador has their own national wallet app called Chivo. I would be surprised if El Salvadorans regularly use the actual Bitcoin blockchain (as opposed to just shuffling BTC between Chivo accounts) due to the huge and inflexible fees for on-chain transactions.
ruiseal 4y ago
On chain fees are usually not more than $0.50 but if you paid on-chain (regular bitcoin transaction) then you'd be paying that (and have to wait 10 minutes for the confirmation). But most transactional purchases are done on lightning, a layer 2 system, which are virtually instant and very low in fees (like a cent or two).

anderskaseorg 4y ago

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/el-salvadors-bitcoin-holdings-down-60percent-to-60-million-one-year-later.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/el-salvadors-bitcoin-holding... shows a pretty different picture of both the prevalence and the usefulness of Bitcoin in El Salvador.