8 ms·

When numbers in billions of $ are mentioned with regards to these crypto exchanges, is there really that much actual money at stake or is that the imagined valu

by yashg 4y ago

When numbers in billions of $ are mentioned with regards to these crypto exchanges, is there really that much actual money at stake or is that the imagined value of all the magic tokens that are supposedly traded on these exchanges?

Lionga 4y ago
It is all just magic tokens valued at a 10 to 100 times inflated value of crypto internal leverage.
mumbisChungo 4y ago
volume is disproportionately in 1:1 USD stablecoins, bitcoin, and ethereum. you can sort the landing page here by 24H volume for a quick glance, or you can check the exchanges tab for more detail: https://www.coingecko.com/ https://www.coingecko.com/
- londons_explore 4y ago
  But there are large questions over how 1:1 those stablecoins really are...
  - mumbisChungo 4y ago
    This is the one I have used for years: https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency
- Lionga 4y ago
  If just 10% of the "1:1 USD stablecoins" where cashed out today their price would fall 99%. And bitcoin and ethereum are also just at a "value" that's inflated 10 to 100 times due to crypto internal leverage.
  - mumbisChungo 4y ago
    No, USDT and USDC are both backed on a 1:1 basis by banking custodians which are regularly audited.
    - Elinvynia 4y ago
      Could you point me to an USDT audit? Thanks!
      - Lionga 4y ago
        The whole audit is nicely cover in a single "Trust me bro"
        mumbisChungo 4y ago
        you can read the texts of them yourself and make up your own mind DYOR or "don't trust, verify" are common mantras in the industry for a reason, and similarly are the reason that I hold custody of my own assets rather than relying on centralized entities like FTX.
      - mumbisChungo 4y ago
        https://tether.to/en/transparency/#reports https://tether.to/en/transparency/#reports
        cycrutchfield 4y ago
        Not an audit
        mumbisChungo 4y ago
        One of the first links on that page is a document titled "INDEPENDENT AUDITORS' REPORT ON THE CONSOLIDATED RESERVES REPORT" https://assets.ctfassets.net/vyse88cgwfbl/2xJyKdUKicdRUWpC9buRWR/6fe2987698dbbf39b947af718d736ddb/Std_ISAE_3000R_Opinion_30-6-2022_RC134792022BD0303.pdf https://assets.ctfassets.net/vyse88cgwfbl/2xJyKdUKicdRUWpC9b...
  - danielvf 4y ago
    We've already seen more than 10% of USDT cashed out in a previous exciting time a few months ago and the traded price value went down a few cents for a few hours. Nothing remotely like 99%.
    - Lionga 4y ago
      It was a maximum of around 1% in a single day and this made Tether fall 2 or 3 percent during LUNA crash. The problem is the selling pressure does not interact linear with price but exponential
londons_explore 4y ago
Tends to be imagined value... But imagined value that, if you play your cards right, you might be able to convert into real dollars. Leaving someone else with the imagined value instead.
- mumbisChungo 4y ago
  yes, much like the stock market
  - Analemma_ 4y ago
    No, not at all like the stock market. Shares of stock grant you partial ownership of a corporation with assets and income. Tokens give you partial ownership of fuck-all.
    - eniotna 4y ago
      Asset and income denominated in some currency which is also an imaginary concept that we decided to all agree on was worth something. Not much different if you ask me
    - mumbisChungo 4y ago
      >Tokens give you partial ownership of fuck-all. This is not entirely accurate. The "crypto" industry is not a monolithic piece of technology or implementation. Some tokens provide governance, which is a proxy for legal ownership. Some tokens provide ownership directly or contain trustless, immutable access to assets. I personally find decentralized programmable networks like ethereum- where it's sort of choose your own adventure in regard to utility, ownership, implementation, et cetera- to be more interesting than bitcoin.
  - yashg 4y ago
    No. Stock market may look like a ponzi where one buys stocks in companies only in the hope of selling them to higher value to someone else at a later date, the value itself doesn't come from that. The value comes from future prospects of a company's actual business. A company's shares can't go on rising infinitely if it has no solid business. Why is Meta sinking? The fundamentals of its core business are looking vulnerable. Why do companies like Apple/Microsoft/Google/Amazon eventually rise? Because they are market leaders, have strong profits and they keep innovating. Even if a company is loss making and doesn't pay dividend, there will be someone who would be interested in acquiring the company to actually run it and not just just to flip it to a bigger buyer at a later date. That is why Musk paid $44B for Twitter. Because after all is said and done, it is still the most influential social network amongst the people who matter. Owning it has a value for someone like Musk. That value comes from the activity that Twitter conducts and not the demand for its shares. In crypto value comes only from the demand. In stock, demand comes from the value being generated by the company.
dragonelite 4y ago
Pretty much NFT might have been an interesting thing to developed further if it didn't went the way of selling stoned ape jpegs.
shapefrog 4y ago
There is a 5-10 billion dollar hole in their balance sheet. 5-10 billion has vanished so yes that is the actual money at stake.

by yashg 4y ago

Lionga 4y ago

It is all just magic tokens valued at a 10 to 100 times inflated value of crypto internal leverage.

mumbisChungo 4y ago

volume is disproportionately in 1:1 USD stablecoins, bitcoin, and ethereum. you can sort the landing page here by 24H volume for a quick glance, or you can check the exchanges tab for more detail: https://www.coingecko.com/ https://www.coingecko.com/

londons_explore 4y ago
But there are large questions over how 1:1 those stablecoins really are...
- mumbisChungo 4y ago
  This is the one I have used for years: https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency
Lionga 4y ago
If just 10% of the "1:1 USD stablecoins" where cashed out today their price would fall 99%. And bitcoin and ethereum are also just at a "value" that's inflated 10 to 100 times due to crypto internal leverage.
- mumbisChungo 4y ago
  No, USDT and USDC are both backed on a 1:1 basis by banking custodians which are regularly audited.
  - Elinvynia 4y ago
    Could you point me to an USDT audit? Thanks!
    - Lionga 4y ago
      The whole audit is nicely cover in a single "Trust me bro"
      - mumbisChungo 4y ago
        you can read the texts of them yourself and make up your own mind DYOR or "don't trust, verify" are common mantras in the industry for a reason, and similarly are the reason that I hold custody of my own assets rather than relying on centralized entities like FTX.
    - mumbisChungo 4y ago
      https://tether.to/en/transparency/#reports https://tether.to/en/transparency/#reports
      - cycrutchfield 4y ago
        Not an audit
        mumbisChungo 4y ago
        One of the first links on that page is a document titled "INDEPENDENT AUDITORS' REPORT ON THE CONSOLIDATED RESERVES REPORT" https://assets.ctfassets.net/vyse88cgwfbl/2xJyKdUKicdRUWpC9buRWR/6fe2987698dbbf39b947af718d736ddb/Std_ISAE_3000R_Opinion_30-6-2022_RC134792022BD0303.pdf https://assets.ctfassets.net/vyse88cgwfbl/2xJyKdUKicdRUWpC9b...
- danielvf 4y ago
  We've already seen more than 10% of USDT cashed out in a previous exciting time a few months ago and the traded price value went down a few cents for a few hours. Nothing remotely like 99%.
  - Lionga 4y ago
    It was a maximum of around 1% in a single day and this made Tether fall 2 or 3 percent during LUNA crash. The problem is the selling pressure does not interact linear with price but exponential

londons_explore 4y ago

Tends to be imagined value... But imagined value that, if you play your cards right, you might be able to convert into real dollars. Leaving someone else with the imagined value instead.

mumbisChungo 4y ago
yes, much like the stock market
- Analemma_ 4y ago
  No, not at all like the stock market. Shares of stock grant you partial ownership of a corporation with assets and income. Tokens give you partial ownership of fuck-all.
  - eniotna 4y ago
    Asset and income denominated in some currency which is also an imaginary concept that we decided to all agree on was worth something. Not much different if you ask me
  - mumbisChungo 4y ago
    >Tokens give you partial ownership of fuck-all. This is not entirely accurate. The "crypto" industry is not a monolithic piece of technology or implementation. Some tokens provide governance, which is a proxy for legal ownership. Some tokens provide ownership directly or contain trustless, immutable access to assets. I personally find decentralized programmable networks like ethereum- where it's sort of choose your own adventure in regard to utility, ownership, implementation, et cetera- to be more interesting than bitcoin.
- yashg 4y ago
  No. Stock market may look like a ponzi where one buys stocks in companies only in the hope of selling them to higher value to someone else at a later date, the value itself doesn't come from that. The value comes from future prospects of a company's actual business. A company's shares can't go on rising infinitely if it has no solid business. Why is Meta sinking? The fundamentals of its core business are looking vulnerable. Why do companies like Apple/Microsoft/Google/Amazon eventually rise? Because they are market leaders, have strong profits and they keep innovating. Even if a company is loss making and doesn't pay dividend, there will be someone who would be interested in acquiring the company to actually run it and not just just to flip it to a bigger buyer at a later date. That is why Musk paid $44B for Twitter. Because after all is said and done, it is still the most influential social network amongst the people who matter. Owning it has a value for someone like Musk. That value comes from the activity that Twitter conducts and not the demand for its shares. In crypto value comes only from the demand. In stock, demand comes from the value being generated by the company.

dragonelite 4y ago

Pretty much NFT might have been an interesting thing to developed further if it didn't went the way of selling stoned ape jpegs.

shapefrog 4y ago

There is a 5-10 billion dollar hole in their balance sheet. 5-10 billion has vanished so yes that is the actual money at stake.