4 ms·

That is technically correct but the RF elites have painted themselves into a corner such that if they were to withdraw, they would be elites no more and possibl

That is technically correct but the RF elites have painted themselves into a corner such that if they were to withdraw, they would be elites no more and possibly not even alive.

timeon 4y ago
I am sure that they can fabricate some new truth for their masses.
- sorokod 4y ago
  Masses are not the threat (or at least not the main one). Fierce competition at the very top is the threat.
blaser-waffle 4y ago
An awful lot of oligarchs and other powerplayers, including a few who were affiliated with the Siloviki, have "committed suicide" or "had heart attacks" in recent months. Honestly I think if Putin pulled out he'd be fine -- most of the opposition is dead, running scared, or on his team. A lot of Russian assets have been frozen, though, and if he wants to get those back he'd have to walk away from his 2014 gains, or else justify why all of that $$$ is gone.
- sorokod 4y ago
  Yevgeny Prigozhin and Ramzan Kadyrov emerge as the big players. They will not commit suicide, with or without double quotes.
mrguyorama 4y ago
And that's a problem for Ukraine because?
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  The refusal of Russian leadership to withdraw their forces from Ukraine is a problem for Ukraine because it means Ukraine has to kick them out the hard way. Surely you've noticed there is a war.
  - yetihehe 4y ago
    So: what could Ukraine do to stop that war? Surrendering territory is as unacceptable, but Ukraine's position is more righteous here.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      > So: what could Ukraine do to stop that war? Win it, ideally. > Ukraine's position is more righteous here. No shit.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    I'm saying the world as a whole should not compromise (push Ukraine to go for peace) with a dictator just because that dictator doesn't want to do the right thing. That should generally be considered not a good move. We should continue not pushing Ukraine to compromise with said dictator even if it means a little pain (cold winter and a few billions of aid) for us. As long as we keep sending bullets and shells and missiles and training new soldiers, Ukrainians seem willing to defend their sovereign rights. Anyone saying Ukraine should give up, in any way, is doing the kremlin's job, whether they realize it or not. Putin is the only one who benefits
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
myth_drannon 4y ago
Russo-Japanese and Soviet invasion to Finland were huge mistakes but the rulers were kept places.
- ed_balls 4y ago
  Finland was not a mistake*, they needed a strategic depth for the white sea and the goal was achieved(the cost was high and the was the single goal from many). If Stalin wouldn't get that, he would be removed.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  The loss of the Russo-Japanese War was definitely a substantial contributor to the growing domestic unrest which would eventually unseat Nicholas II and get his family executed. Particularly it lead to the 1905 Russian revolution, which was brutally suppressed but that experience played a major role in the success of the October Revolution.

That is technically correct but the RF elites have painted themselves into a corner such that if they were to withdraw, they would be elites no more and possibly not even alive.

timeon 4y ago

I am sure that they can fabricate some new truth for their masses.

sorokod 4y ago
Masses are not the threat (or at least not the main one). Fierce competition at the very top is the threat.

blaser-waffle 4y ago

An awful lot of oligarchs and other powerplayers, including a few who were affiliated with the Siloviki, have "committed suicide" or "had heart attacks" in recent months. Honestly I think if Putin pulled out he'd be fine -- most of the opposition is dead, running scared, or on his team. A lot of Russian assets have been frozen, though, and if he wants to get those back he'd have to walk away from his 2014 gains, or else justify why all of that $$$ is gone.

sorokod 4y ago
Yevgeny Prigozhin and Ramzan Kadyrov emerge as the big players. They will not commit suicide, with or without double quotes.

mrguyorama 4y ago

And that's a problem for Ukraine because?

MichaelCollins 4y ago
The refusal of Russian leadership to withdraw their forces from Ukraine is a problem for Ukraine because it means Ukraine has to kick them out the hard way. Surely you've noticed there is a war.
- yetihehe 4y ago
  So: what could Ukraine do to stop that war? Surrendering territory is as unacceptable, but Ukraine's position is more righteous here.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    > So: what could Ukraine do to stop that war? Win it, ideally. > Ukraine's position is more righteous here. No shit.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  I'm saying the world as a whole should not compromise (push Ukraine to go for peace) with a dictator just because that dictator doesn't want to do the right thing. That should generally be considered not a good move. We should continue not pushing Ukraine to compromise with said dictator even if it means a little pain (cold winter and a few billions of aid) for us. As long as we keep sending bullets and shells and missiles and training new soldiers, Ukrainians seem willing to defend their sovereign rights. Anyone saying Ukraine should give up, in any way, is doing the kremlin's job, whether they realize it or not. Putin is the only one who benefits
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

myth_drannon 4y ago

Russo-Japanese and Soviet invasion to Finland were huge mistakes but the rulers were kept places.

ed_balls 4y ago
Finland was not a mistake*, they needed a strategic depth for the white sea and the goal was achieved(the cost was high and the was the single goal from many). If Stalin wouldn't get that, he would be removed.
MichaelCollins 4y ago
The loss of the Russo-Japanese War was definitely a substantial contributor to the growing domestic unrest which would eventually unseat Nicholas II and get his family executed. Particularly it lead to the 1905 Russian revolution, which was brutally suppressed but that experience played a major role in the success of the October Revolution.