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> As always with these things, I wonder what taking responsibility actually means in practice. Remember a few years ago when people were asking "Why can't peop

> As always with these things, I wonder what taking responsibility actually means in practice. Remember a few years ago when people were asking "Why can't people just say they made a mistake and own up to it instead of shifting blame?" Now that people are taking responsibility for mistakes publicly the response is "Yes, but what does that mean?" Taking responsibility means just that. It means saying you fucked up and not blaming others for your failures. It doesn't mean that self immolation follows soon after. I move on from bad breaks pretty quickly but there are few things that I've held on to. Things that still burn years later and all of them involve refusals to accept responsibility. Hearing someone say: "Yep, it was me. I fucked you and I'm sorry. Here's what I can offer." isn't nothing. Layoffs suck but the rate of hiring in big companies wasn't sustainable. A correction is here. It's temporary, but, it's real. If you've tried to hire outside of FAANG over the past decade you'd know one thing: FAANG is hoarding talent. Every developer I've really wanted to hold on to has gone to a big tech company.. I can't blame them. But, here's the thing, so have many of the contractors that I didn't end up hiring for very good reasons. These layoff messages, down to the structure and content, all sound the same because PR people follow best practices just like everyone else. You wouldn't ask why all Redux or Angular apps use similar patterns.. They're using patterns, that's what patterns are for.

littlestymaar 4y ago
> Remember a few years ago when people were asking "Why can't people just say they made a mistake and own up to it instead of shifting blame?" Now that people are taking responsibility for mistakes publicly But they aren't, this isn't “taking responsibility”, this is just following the latest spin doctor trend in public communication. Taking responsibility for a failure means stepping down.
karaterobot 4y ago
I think people are forgetting that a severance package is not a legal requirement, and that this one is actually pretty generous. "I fucked up, here's what I can offer" is more or less what this letter is saying, but it's just not drawing the connection between the two parts in a way that makes sense to people. People can disagree about whether the package is satisfactory, but that's completely beside the point. The severance package is the make good Zuckerberg is offering: it is an expense his company is paying when they do not have to. It is the implied answer to the question "Oh yeah? How is he taking responsibility?" Argue about whether it's good enough, but it is an answer.
rendaw 4y ago
Admitting mistakes and taking responsibility are two different things. People were calling for the first, not the second. What they're complaining about is that Zuckerberg can't take responsibility here, it's too late (being responsible would have been gambling less), but he is claiming he will which is more obvious marketing speak (sounds good, doesn't make any sense).
hardolaf 4y ago
It sounds like you should pay more for developers because we don't have an issue retaining top talent over in the financial space.
- miiiiiike 4y ago
  > Financial space Real numbers here: $250k for a mid-level UX designer and $575k (base comp) for an Angular dev. That's expensive. And, depending on the candidate, not worth it. There's a lot of reality outside of FAANG and finance.
mongol 4y ago
Taking responsibility is more than just admitting reponsibility. It is also about bearing the consequences. Such as, if you broke something, you fix it. If you lost something, you pay up to replace it. Or similar. A manager usually can't fix a problem themselves though. But unless they pay a cost for their mistakes, they are not really taking responsibility. Then they just pay lip service to the word.
- JohnAaronNelson 4y ago
  Thank you. Saying “my bad” is the first step. Fixing it afterwards is what good people do. When someone is accused of a crime, they can plead innocent or guilty. That is step one. There are more steps after that…
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    For a CEO, the next step is trying to get the business back on track and restore stock price. I think that his crazy to think Zuckerberg will not try to do that.
- miiiiiike 4y ago
  What do you suggest?
  - jjulius 4y ago
    Admit that you either no longer know how to steer the ship, or you don't know which direction to go, and then let someone else do it.
    - nomel 4y ago
      > Admit that you either no longer know how to steer the ship This makes the assumption that the current path was the only, and best, path, and that the CEO doesn't see a better path in the distance, or some danger immediately ahead. Most of the big tech companies were made by people who ignored the crowds yelling at them to keep going straight. And, many of the failed behemoths of today did just that.
heavyset_go 4y ago
Apologizing means you won't do it again. What steps are being taken so that the situation being apologized for doesn't happen again?
warcher 4y ago
Nothing short of seppuku streamed live via Oculus will redeem the honor of a business guy putting his honest level best effort behind some business things that didn't make as much money as he hoped.
P_I_Staker 4y ago
I've called this the public apology ritual. In the minds of the angry mob, the person is irredeemable and should suffer the worst fate (in our society that might entail being "canceled"... shunned). They don't WANT to forgive them, or provide them with any redemption. Regardless of the apology, you will use it to push back further. Look for any hole in the apology to point to. If that fails, criticize the apology for being too late, or only to save face... in any case, make sure to proclaim that you're even more angry after the apology. I'm not saying people should never apologize, but I get sick of this whole routine and all the acting. People will always just do what they want and it will just be based on a knee jerk sense of how much they like you.

littlestymaar 4y ago

> Remember a few years ago when people were asking "Why can't people just say they made a mistake and own up to it instead of shifting blame?" Now that people are taking responsibility for mistakes publicly But they aren't, this isn't “taking responsibility”, this is just following the latest spin doctor trend in public communication. Taking responsibility for a failure means stepping down.

karaterobot 4y ago

I think people are forgetting that a severance package is not a legal requirement, and that this one is actually pretty generous. "I fucked up, here's what I can offer" is more or less what this letter is saying, but it's just not drawing the connection between the two parts in a way that makes sense to people. People can disagree about whether the package is satisfactory, but that's completely beside the point. The severance package is the make good Zuckerberg is offering: it is an expense his company is paying when they do not have to. It is the implied answer to the question "Oh yeah? How is he taking responsibility?" Argue about whether it's good enough, but it is an answer.

rendaw 4y ago

Admitting mistakes and taking responsibility are two different things. People were calling for the first, not the second. What they're complaining about is that Zuckerberg can't take responsibility here, it's too late (being responsible would have been gambling less), but he is claiming he will which is more obvious marketing speak (sounds good, doesn't make any sense).

hardolaf 4y ago

It sounds like you should pay more for developers because we don't have an issue retaining top talent over in the financial space.

miiiiiike 4y ago
> Financial space Real numbers here: $250k for a mid-level UX designer and $575k (base comp) for an Angular dev. That's expensive. And, depending on the candidate, not worth it. There's a lot of reality outside of FAANG and finance.

mongol 4y ago

Taking responsibility is more than just admitting reponsibility. It is also about bearing the consequences. Such as, if you broke something, you fix it. If you lost something, you pay up to replace it. Or similar. A manager usually can't fix a problem themselves though. But unless they pay a cost for their mistakes, they are not really taking responsibility. Then they just pay lip service to the word.

JohnAaronNelson 4y ago
Thank you. Saying “my bad” is the first step. Fixing it afterwards is what good people do. When someone is accused of a crime, they can plead innocent or guilty. That is step one. There are more steps after that…
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  For a CEO, the next step is trying to get the business back on track and restore stock price. I think that his crazy to think Zuckerberg will not try to do that.
miiiiiike 4y ago
What do you suggest?
- jjulius 4y ago
  Admit that you either no longer know how to steer the ship, or you don't know which direction to go, and then let someone else do it.
  - nomel 4y ago
    > Admit that you either no longer know how to steer the ship This makes the assumption that the current path was the only, and best, path, and that the CEO doesn't see a better path in the distance, or some danger immediately ahead. Most of the big tech companies were made by people who ignored the crowds yelling at them to keep going straight. And, many of the failed behemoths of today did just that.

heavyset_go 4y ago

Apologizing means you won't do it again. What steps are being taken so that the situation being apologized for doesn't happen again?

warcher 4y ago

Nothing short of seppuku streamed live via Oculus will redeem the honor of a business guy putting his honest level best effort behind some business things that didn't make as much money as he hoped.

P_I_Staker 4y ago

I've called this the public apology ritual. In the minds of the angry mob, the person is irredeemable and should suffer the worst fate (in our society that might entail being "canceled"... shunned). They don't WANT to forgive them, or provide them with any redemption. Regardless of the apology, you will use it to push back further. Look for any hole in the apology to point to. If that fails, criticize the apology for being too late, or only to save face... in any case, make sure to proclaim that you're even more angry after the apology. I'm not saying people should never apologize, but I get sick of this whole routine and all the acting. People will always just do what they want and it will just be based on a knee jerk sense of how much they like you.