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The Russians can end it at any moment by withdrawing their troops to the pre-war borders.
by wffurr 4y ago
The Russians can end it at any moment by withdrawing their troops to the pre-war borders.
- david927 4y ago
- regnull 4y agoRussia invaded Ukraine in 2014 when NATO membership was nowhere on the actual agenda.
- samsk 4y agoI've also a good and old one: Russia has lost 15000 troops, 6 generals, 500 tanks, 3 ships, 100 planes and 1000 trucks. NATO hasn't arrived yet
- krisoft 4y ago> 500 tanks That doesn't seems to be right. Oryx lists 1450 lost Russian tanks, of which destroyed: 835, damaged: 62, abandoned: 53, captured: 500. And these are only the visually confirmed losses. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum...
- vpribish 4y agoholy cats, a real live one
- piva00 4y agoIt's not the first one I bumped into here on Hacker News, just a day or two ago I tried calling out a poster that they were repeating literal Russian propaganda lines [1]. It doesn't seem to matter, they'll keep repeating it, ad nauseam... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33522269 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33522269
- gw98 4y agoUm, no.
- etrautmann 4y agothat's been debunked and shown to be absurd many times now.
- 4wsn 4y ago
- david927 4y ago
- fknorangesite 4y agoOut of shame?
- piva00 4y agoReally scary to see what should be intelligent and critical people falling for literal Russian propaganda. From this comment on Hacker News [1]: >> The Soviets brokered a deal with us. We agreed NATO would not expand eastwards. > This is simply not true. It is a talking point developed for Putin's speech at 2007 Munich security conference to justify the shift to genocidal wars against its neighbors. It did not exist before 2007 and was not brought up when, for example, Poland joined NATO in 1999. There was an endless stream of whining and unspecified threats from Russian diplomats at the time, but not once do I remember talk about any deals. > It's nothing more than a simple, yet effective hook for catching western self-flagellants into their net, while the truth is that western governments went above and beyond to accommodate Russia and build cooperation, and it still lead to a maniacal dictatorship carrying out genocide in Europe and threatening rest of the world with hunger and nuclear armageddon. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33524310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33524310
- d0mine 4y agoThe first result in google (that I expect to be a politically correct propaganda): "these promises were made orally and were never recorded in a treaty" recalled Olivier Kempf https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-... So at the very least there were promises.
- fknorangesite 4y ago
- vkou 4y agoThat sort of request works a bit better before the country gets invaded, first piecemeal, and then - here's the really important bit - in it's entirety.
- piva00 4y agoWhere did you get this talking point from? I'm serious, I'd like to know what informed you that this is what's actually happening.
- ceejayoz 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency The "this is all Ukraine's fault!" talking point has been around since before the war. Absurd, but definitely around.
- d0mine 4y agoFacts should matter more than opinions. If you think the statement is false, you could provide evidence-based arguments. For example, it should be possible to check whether NATO provided safety guarantees or not (it is an objective statement). Obviously, given military, economic, media, etc superiority, NATO can do whatever to whomever with impunity. If you think, there are no plans to dismantle Russia, why NATO refuses to make it official? (however little it might mean, given the history) Look into who made a fat profit on all this tragedy. Cui bono. Make your own conclusions based on the facts.
- sorokod 4y agoThat is technically correct but the RF elites have painted themselves into a corner such that if they were to withdraw, they would be elites no more and possibly not even alive.
- timeon 4y agoI am sure that they can fabricate some new truth for their masses.
- sorokod 4y agoMasses are not the threat (or at least not the main one). Fierce competition at the very top is the threat.
- blaser-waffle 4y agoAn awful lot of oligarchs and other powerplayers, including a few who were affiliated with the Siloviki, have "committed suicide" or "had heart attacks" in recent months. Honestly I think if Putin pulled out he'd be fine -- most of the opposition is dead, running scared, or on his team. A lot of Russian assets have been frozen, though, and if he wants to get those back he'd have to walk away from his 2014 gains, or else justify why all of that $$$ is gone.
- sorokod 4y agoYevgeny Prigozhin and Ramzan Kadyrov emerge as the big players. They will not commit suicide, with or without double quotes.
- mrguyorama 4y agoAnd that's a problem for Ukraine because?
- MichaelCollins 4y agoThe refusal of Russian leadership to withdraw their forces from Ukraine is a problem for Ukraine because it means Ukraine has to kick them out the hard way. Surely you've noticed there is a war.