5 ms·

I agree with you, but so far I have never been able to get into the logic of de Bruijn's clues. As for example John Tromp knows how to do. (https://tromp.github

I agree with you, but so far I have never been able to get into the logic of de Bruijn's clues. As for example John Tromp knows how to do. (https://tromp.github.io/ https://tromp.github.io/) But I don't despair of getting there one day...

qsort 4y ago
A picture is worth a thousand words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index#/media/File:De_Bruijn_index_illustration_1.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index#/media/File:De... It's literally just notation: - It doesn't matter how you name variables. (if you want to sound cool: "lambda terms are invariant under alpha-conversion") - Each new variable introduces a scope. - Therefore, how scopes are nested defines the entire expression. - Instead of the usual way, we represent scopes with numbers, with the index representing "how nested the scope is". Imagine it's python, and you're pressing tab that many times.
- pierrebai 4y ago
  Syntax and layout ware worth yet a few more orders of magnitude of words. But that argument has slipped past LISPers forever. I'll just let them keep scratching their heads why Python got so popular when LISP was around for so long and is /clearly/ superior.
  - lispm 4y ago
    I don't think LISPers are scratching their head about this. Lisp syntax is optimized towards meta-programming. Generating and processing code is built-in and supported with central mechanisms: READ, EVAL, PRINT, s-expressions, macros, ... Python is optimized towards simple pseudo-code like imperative OOP. That's easier for most programmers.
  - voldacar 4y ago
    What world are you living in where popularity is somehow a way of judging quality? The masses love marvel movies and fast food
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    Python is popular because the majority of programs are extremely simple. Look at how ugly decorators are in python when in lisp you get them for free and they don't even need a name.
lisper 4y ago
Note that the person you were responding to is John Tromp. :-)
SkyMarshal 4y ago
> As for example John Tromp knows how to do. You might not have noticed the userid of the person you're replying to ;)
- martyalain 4y ago
  yes, I hadn't noticed that. I wish I could understand him better.

qsort 4y ago

A picture is worth a thousand words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index#/media/File:De_Bruijn_index_illustration_1.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index#/media/File:De... It's literally just notation: - It doesn't matter how you name variables. (if you want to sound cool: "lambda terms are invariant under alpha-conversion") - Each new variable introduces a scope. - Therefore, how scopes are nested defines the entire expression. - Instead of the usual way, we represent scopes with numbers, with the index representing "how nested the scope is". Imagine it's python, and you're pressing tab that many times.

pierrebai 4y ago
Syntax and layout ware worth yet a few more orders of magnitude of words. But that argument has slipped past LISPers forever. I'll just let them keep scratching their heads why Python got so popular when LISP was around for so long and is /clearly/ superior.
- lispm 4y ago
  I don't think LISPers are scratching their head about this. Lisp syntax is optimized towards meta-programming. Generating and processing code is built-in and supported with central mechanisms: READ, EVAL, PRINT, s-expressions, macros, ... Python is optimized towards simple pseudo-code like imperative OOP. That's easier for most programmers.
- voldacar 4y ago
  What world are you living in where popularity is somehow a way of judging quality? The masses love marvel movies and fast food
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- thrown_22 4y ago
  Python is popular because the majority of programs are extremely simple. Look at how ugly decorators are in python when in lisp you get them for free and they don't even need a name.

lisper 4y ago

Note that the person you were responding to is John Tromp. :-)

SkyMarshal 4y ago

> As for example John Tromp knows how to do. You might not have noticed the userid of the person you're replying to ;)

martyalain 4y ago
yes, I hadn't noticed that. I wish I could understand him better.