4 ms·

Tesla Stock Is Plummeting and Reddit Investors Are Blaming Musk’s Twitter Chaos

20 points by isaacfrond 4y ago

KurvaKing 4y ago
zach_garwood 4y ago
The article was unhelpful. Is Tesla's stock decline really attributable to Musk's Twitter shenanigans? That seems dubious, but I am not a professional investor, so what do I know.
- bravetraveler 4y ago
  Yea.. I saw WSB and left. Rants of opportunistic lunatics The sentiment shift I've observed is that Musk is using Tesla kind of like a piggy bank/engineering entourage To my totally uneducated self this makes sense
  - zach_garwood 4y ago
    I mean, I personally would find it hilarious if true, but can he just take money from Tesla and dump it into Twitter without running afoul of financial regulations? Wouldn't that just be, like, stealing? I wish the article had provided some, ya know, facts and context.
    - beardyw 4y ago
      If he has shares in company A he can sell them and buy shares in company B.
      - klyrs 4y ago
        That's above-board. Making Tesla engineers moonlight (or daylight) on Twitter code is not. He's gotten fined for pulling similar shenanigans with Tesla&SpaceX.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        panick21_ 4y ago
        > He's gotten fined for pulling similar shenanigans with Tesla&SpaceX. I follow this companies, specially pretty closely. Please provide a source. Usually how it works that one company pays the other a service fee for the time used. This is also used by the Boring company.
      - sidibe 4y ago
        I thought normally CEOs have to plan pretty far ahead to dump stocks so there's no suspicion of insider trading. When he first unloaded to buy Twitter a lot of people were speculating it was an excuse to unload TSLA ahead of bad news like finally facing consequences for FSD. You'd think if CEOs/founders are careful about announcing sales ahead of time, selling suddenly and after previously tweeting he was done selling would have consequences. In the end I think regulators in automobile and financial industries rely a lot on self regulation and don't know what to do when someone doesn't even go through the motions
  - blaser-waffle 4y ago
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > The article was unhelpful. Is Tesla's stock decline really attributable to Musk's Twitter shenanigans? Accurate attribution of stock movements is difficult, and any “this one thing fully explains this movement” is probably wrong, but it seems plausible that news of Tesla engineers being pulled to review Twitter code plus Elon’s attention being visibly heavily on Twitter contributes somewhat to the negative pressure on Tesla. OTOH, “the Fed actively slamming the brakes on the economy makes people less confidence in the intermediate-term performance of luxury car brands” could be a factor, as could lots of other things.
  - zach_garwood 4y ago
    Yeah, it seems like he's always distracted with one outlandish project or another, but maybe since he's imploding Twitter in such a dramatic, public fashion it's finally waking investors up to that fact.
photochemsyn 4y ago
VW has such a better overall economic model than any US car manufacturer. Workers are unionized at VW and have some representation on the board, so it's a shared power situation between employees and shareholders. Granted this hasn't kept VW from making really stupid decisions (see VW diesel emissions scandal), but at least they've shifted to prioritizing EV production (also made in the USA): https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2022/10/21/vw-starts-building-electric-vehicles-in-us-plant-just-in-time-production/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2022/10/21/vw-starts-b... I think this puts VW in the slot of primary competitor for Tesla's market, should be interesting to see what happens.
- alephnerd 4y ago
  Government Ownership and subsidies play a factor too - ~12% of equity and 20% of voting shares is owned by the State of Lower Saxony [0][1]. This ownership by a state with 10% of Bundestag has helped VW leverage Germany’s powerful status within the EU [2] and the same dual structure mentioned above did have an effect in enabling Dieselgate [3] [0] - https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/InvestorRelations/shares/shareholder-structure.html https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/InvestorRelations/shares/sha... [1] - https://www.wardsauto.com/lower-saxony-buys-vw-shares-keep-20-pct-stake https://www.wardsauto.com/lower-saxony-buys-vw-shares-keep-2... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/article/volkswagen-emissions-germany-politics-in-idCNL5N11W04V20150927 https://www.reuters.com/article/volkswagen-emissions-germany... [3] - https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1065&context=mbelr https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...
- nells 4y ago
  ”VW will perform better because their workers are unionised” is a non sequitur.
  - vt85 4y ago
    [dead]
hourago 4y ago
Astroturfing is catching up with Musk. He has been been lying for years about his investments. From self-drive to Dogecoin there is more vaporware than reality at this point. The Hyperloop was just evil. He sold shares based on his personality, as he goes full crazy his image suffers and so does his shares. The guy is super-rich so it is difficult to be sad for him. But this is going to affect people that believed in him and invested a lot of money.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Tesla made almost the same profit as Toyota in Q3 but its apparently all vaporware. How does that make sense? > The Hyperloop was just evil. How is it evil, here a few facts: - He said he had an idea for transit system - He released this pdf: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperl... - He said I don't have time for this, so I'm not gone work on it. Anybody that want's is free to work on it. - Hosted a student competition for vacuum sleds. End of story. It didn't get any public investment at all. Its literally just somebody who released pdf with some ideas. By what measure is it 'evil'?
  - anaganisk 4y ago
    I invite you to the community of dedicated “educators” about scam artisanship of Elon Musk at r/enoughmushspam and post this same comment there. I would honestly want to see the discussion explode.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      People on r/enoughmushspam believe that Musk personally involved in overthrowing the government of Boliva, that his dad is diamond billionaire who used slave labor and literally every other delusional conspiracy that goes threw Twitter. Maybe those people shouldn't be taken at face value when they say things. They will just believe ever rumor and misinterpretation of everything. I don't think Hyperloop is technically a good idea, but peoples outrage and misinterpretation of what happened (mostly based on bad media reporting) at the time rather then actually listening to what Musk was saying is just a perfect example of fake news and then now this fake news is basically except as reality by most people. There are even people who believe that Hyperloop is responsible for California HSR not being successful. That is beyond delusional.
zomg 4y ago
i jumped out of TSLA earlier this year because i was tired of the volatility cause by nothing more than public comments elon would make. it was very frustrating.

20 points by isaacfrond 4y ago

The article was unhelpful. Is Tesla's stock decline really attributable to Musk's Twitter shenanigans? That seems dubious, but I am not a professional investor, so what do I know.

bravetraveler 4y ago
Yea.. I saw WSB and left. Rants of opportunistic lunatics The sentiment shift I've observed is that Musk is using Tesla kind of like a piggy bank/engineering entourage To my totally uneducated self this makes sense
- zach_garwood 4y ago
  I mean, I personally would find it hilarious if true, but can he just take money from Tesla and dump it into Twitter without running afoul of financial regulations? Wouldn't that just be, like, stealing? I wish the article had provided some, ya know, facts and context.
  - beardyw 4y ago
    If he has shares in company A he can sell them and buy shares in company B.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      That's above-board. Making Tesla engineers moonlight (or daylight) on Twitter code is not. He's gotten fined for pulling similar shenanigans with Tesla&SpaceX.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - panick21_ 4y ago
        > He's gotten fined for pulling similar shenanigans with Tesla&SpaceX. I follow this companies, specially pretty closely. Please provide a source. Usually how it works that one company pays the other a service fee for the time used. This is also used by the Boring company.
    - sidibe 4y ago
      I thought normally CEOs have to plan pretty far ahead to dump stocks so there's no suspicion of insider trading. When he first unloaded to buy Twitter a lot of people were speculating it was an excuse to unload TSLA ahead of bad news like finally facing consequences for FSD. You'd think if CEOs/founders are careful about announcing sales ahead of time, selling suddenly and after previously tweeting he was done selling would have consequences. In the end I think regulators in automobile and financial industries rely a lot on self regulation and don't know what to do when someone doesn't even go through the motions
- blaser-waffle 4y ago
dragonwriter 4y ago
> The article was unhelpful. Is Tesla's stock decline really attributable to Musk's Twitter shenanigans? Accurate attribution of stock movements is difficult, and any “this one thing fully explains this movement” is probably wrong, but it seems plausible that news of Tesla engineers being pulled to review Twitter code plus Elon’s attention being visibly heavily on Twitter contributes somewhat to the negative pressure on Tesla. OTOH, “the Fed actively slamming the brakes on the economy makes people less confidence in the intermediate-term performance of luxury car brands” could be a factor, as could lots of other things.
- zach_garwood 4y ago
  Yeah, it seems like he's always distracted with one outlandish project or another, but maybe since he's imploding Twitter in such a dramatic, public fashion it's finally waking investors up to that fact.

photochemsyn 4y ago

VW has such a better overall economic model than any US car manufacturer. Workers are unionized at VW and have some representation on the board, so it's a shared power situation between employees and shareholders. Granted this hasn't kept VW from making really stupid decisions (see VW diesel emissions scandal), but at least they've shifted to prioritizing EV production (also made in the USA): https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2022/10/21/vw-starts-building-electric-vehicles-in-us-plant-just-in-time-production/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2022/10/21/vw-starts-b... I think this puts VW in the slot of primary competitor for Tesla's market, should be interesting to see what happens.

alephnerd 4y ago
Government Ownership and subsidies play a factor too - ~12% of equity and 20% of voting shares is owned by the State of Lower Saxony [0][1]. This ownership by a state with 10% of Bundestag has helped VW leverage Germany’s powerful status within the EU [2] and the same dual structure mentioned above did have an effect in enabling Dieselgate [3] [0] - https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/InvestorRelations/shares/shareholder-structure.html https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/InvestorRelations/shares/sha... [1] - https://www.wardsauto.com/lower-saxony-buys-vw-shares-keep-20-pct-stake https://www.wardsauto.com/lower-saxony-buys-vw-shares-keep-2... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/article/volkswagen-emissions-germany-politics-in-idCNL5N11W04V20150927 https://www.reuters.com/article/volkswagen-emissions-germany... [3] - https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1065&context=mbelr https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...
nells 4y ago
”VW will perform better because their workers are unionised” is a non sequitur.
- vt85 4y ago
  [dead]

hourago 4y ago

Astroturfing is catching up with Musk. He has been been lying for years about his investments. From self-drive to Dogecoin there is more vaporware than reality at this point. The Hyperloop was just evil. He sold shares based on his personality, as he goes full crazy his image suffers and so does his shares. The guy is super-rich so it is difficult to be sad for him. But this is going to affect people that believed in him and invested a lot of money.

panick21_ 4y ago
Tesla made almost the same profit as Toyota in Q3 but its apparently all vaporware. How does that make sense? > The Hyperloop was just evil. How is it evil, here a few facts: - He said he had an idea for transit system - He released this pdf: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperl... - He said I don't have time for this, so I'm not gone work on it. Anybody that want's is free to work on it. - Hosted a student competition for vacuum sleds. End of story. It didn't get any public investment at all. Its literally just somebody who released pdf with some ideas. By what measure is it 'evil'?
- anaganisk 4y ago
  I invite you to the community of dedicated “educators” about scam artisanship of Elon Musk at r/enoughmushspam and post this same comment there. I would honestly want to see the discussion explode.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    People on r/enoughmushspam believe that Musk personally involved in overthrowing the government of Boliva, that his dad is diamond billionaire who used slave labor and literally every other delusional conspiracy that goes threw Twitter. Maybe those people shouldn't be taken at face value when they say things. They will just believe ever rumor and misinterpretation of everything. I don't think Hyperloop is technically a good idea, but peoples outrage and misinterpretation of what happened (mostly based on bad media reporting) at the time rather then actually listening to what Musk was saying is just a perfect example of fake news and then now this fake news is basically except as reality by most people. There are even people who believe that Hyperloop is responsible for California HSR not being successful. That is beyond delusional.

zomg 4y ago

i jumped out of TSLA earlier this year because i was tired of the volatility cause by nothing more than public comments elon would make. it was very frustrating.