11 ms·

for those unaware, even in deep blue New York, Riker's has been run as a Guantanamo-style prison camp where there is no civilian oversight over conditions or co

by alecb 4y ago

for those unaware, even in deep blue New York, Riker's has been run as a Guantanamo-style prison camp where there is no civilian oversight over conditions or corrections officers. to me, the most appalling aspect has been the amount of people locked up indefinitely over misdemeanors and thrown into gen pop to basically die

spywaregorilla 4y ago
What does civilian oversight over conditions and corrections officers mean in practice?
- jakelazaroff 4y ago
  As a bare minimum, professional consequences and/or criminal charges when inmates die?
- alecb 4y ago
  it means that essentially the corrections officer union has gummed up any and all reforms passed through legislation (think video cameras in public areas, anti-violence training, etc.). this has led to a situation where there is a preventable suicide about once every 2 weeks in the prison and state officials are calling for federal intervention since they can't effectively change conditions; https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-man-dies-rikers-island-20221022-3c3u4e25snep5am4vafydajhea-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-man-dies-r...
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    That makes sense, thanks.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  Repercussions when someone dies of exposure in solitary confinement while awaiting trial.
- muaytimbo 4y ago
  Oversight could easily mean installing surveillance infrastructure to monitor guards as well as inmates. Making that public would offer even more accountability.
chrisseaton 4y ago
> no civilian oversight over conditions or corrections officers If there isn’t civilian oversight what is there? It’s nothing to do with the military is it?
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  "Civilian" oversight means non-police in this context. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_oversight_of_law_enforcement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_oversight_of_law_enfo...
jakearmitage 4y ago
> even in deep blue New York What do you mean by that?
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  That the progressive nature of a city's electorate generally doesn't reflect in its police/corrections forces; civilian oversight is severely limited and pushed back against. The NYPD was openly at war with it's theoretical executive, DiBlasio, including doxxing his daughter.
  - muaytimbo 4y ago
    I'm not sure it's a matter of political identity here, the police just push back against anything that makes them accountable, they want to be able to kill, maim, and hurt without being questioned.
ceejayoz 4y ago
> the most appalling aspect has been the amount of people locked up indefinitely over misdemeanors Even worse than that, they're locked up indefinitely before trial. https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/8/17/23310771/why-some-spend-years-rikers https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/8/17/23310771/why-some-spend-ye... > But several men have been on Rikers Island and in other city Department of Correction jails as their criminal cases snake their way through the court system for years — in one case a decade and counting — according to a list of the longest-serving detainees in city custody obtained by THE CITY.
- onemoresoop 4y ago
  > Even worse than that, they're locked up indefinitely before trial. Not painting with a large brush but a lot of them are very dangerous and it seems, with reform bail they let the door open to a lot of violent crime, at least here in NY it's shot up through the roof. I'm definitely for reform but reform done responsibly and not rushed either, because I could see this backfiring even worse.
  - dmix 4y ago
    They need to invest heavily in the prisons and jails, not just let them go as a short-term compromise. Investing in proper treatment of criminals would do a lot to reduce recidivism. All of the actual solutions are hard and expensive but that's how it is. Thoughtlessly letting career criminals go so they commit 3 more crimes before the trial for the first one isn't the more compassionate move. To the net public at least. Same deal with closing mental institutions in the 1980s without an alternative.
  - freeone3000 4y ago
    A lot of them are accused of being dangerous. They are not "dangerous" until actually convicted of a crime -- I do not hold an accusation alone as sufficient cause to imprison a human indefinitely.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    If they're "very dangerous", prove it. Ten years awaiting trial is simply unacceptable. Bail reform in NY just means poor people have the same right to get out of jail while pending trial that rich people already had.

by alecb 4y ago

spywaregorilla 4y ago

What does civilian oversight over conditions and corrections officers mean in practice?

jakelazaroff 4y ago
As a bare minimum, professional consequences and/or criminal charges when inmates die?
alecb 4y ago
it means that essentially the corrections officer union has gummed up any and all reforms passed through legislation (think video cameras in public areas, anti-violence training, etc.). this has led to a situation where there is a preventable suicide about once every 2 weeks in the prison and state officials are calling for federal intervention since they can't effectively change conditions; https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-man-dies-rikers-island-20221022-3c3u4e25snep5am4vafydajhea-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-man-dies-r...
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  That makes sense, thanks.
ch4s3 4y ago
Repercussions when someone dies of exposure in solitary confinement while awaiting trial.
muaytimbo 4y ago
Oversight could easily mean installing surveillance infrastructure to monitor guards as well as inmates. Making that public would offer even more accountability.

chrisseaton 4y ago

> no civilian oversight over conditions or corrections officers If there isn’t civilian oversight what is there? It’s nothing to do with the military is it?

ceejayoz 4y ago
"Civilian" oversight means non-police in this context. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_oversight_of_law_enforcement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_oversight_of_law_enfo...

jakearmitage 4y ago

> even in deep blue New York What do you mean by that?

ceejayoz 4y ago
That the progressive nature of a city's electorate generally doesn't reflect in its police/corrections forces; civilian oversight is severely limited and pushed back against. The NYPD was openly at war with it's theoretical executive, DiBlasio, including doxxing his daughter.
- muaytimbo 4y ago
  I'm not sure it's a matter of political identity here, the police just push back against anything that makes them accountable, they want to be able to kill, maim, and hurt without being questioned.

ceejayoz 4y ago

> the most appalling aspect has been the amount of people locked up indefinitely over misdemeanors Even worse than that, they're locked up indefinitely before trial. https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/8/17/23310771/why-some-spend-years-rikers https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/8/17/23310771/why-some-spend-ye... > But several men have been on Rikers Island and in other city Department of Correction jails as their criminal cases snake their way through the court system for years — in one case a decade and counting — according to a list of the longest-serving detainees in city custody obtained by THE CITY.

onemoresoop 4y ago
> Even worse than that, they're locked up indefinitely before trial. Not painting with a large brush but a lot of them are very dangerous and it seems, with reform bail they let the door open to a lot of violent crime, at least here in NY it's shot up through the roof. I'm definitely for reform but reform done responsibly and not rushed either, because I could see this backfiring even worse.
- dmix 4y ago
  They need to invest heavily in the prisons and jails, not just let them go as a short-term compromise. Investing in proper treatment of criminals would do a lot to reduce recidivism. All of the actual solutions are hard and expensive but that's how it is. Thoughtlessly letting career criminals go so they commit 3 more crimes before the trial for the first one isn't the more compassionate move. To the net public at least. Same deal with closing mental institutions in the 1980s without an alternative.
- freeone3000 4y ago
  A lot of them are accused of being dangerous. They are not "dangerous" until actually convicted of a crime -- I do not hold an accusation alone as sufficient cause to imprison a human indefinitely.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  If they're "very dangerous", prove it. Ten years awaiting trial is simply unacceptable. Bail reform in NY just means poor people have the same right to get out of jail while pending trial that rich people already had.