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I very much doubt that there is any technical reason for the alerts always being loud. It's a deliberate decision. Like the whole idea of amber alerts, it is

I very much doubt that there is any technical reason for the alerts always being loud. It's a deliberate decision. Like the whole idea of amber alerts, it is a matter of authorities taking decisions that make them feel good, without considering the consequences. Amber alerts are bad. We get them now and them in Ontario at 3am, sent to the entire (rather large) province. This is idiotic. The probability that someone would be awake and in a position to observe an abducted child at 3am is negligible. The probability that someone woken at 3am will not be able to get back to sleep, drive to work in the morning when drowsy, and consequently get into an accident that kills someone, is not negligible. Such alerts should be confined to warnings that people really do need to pay immediate attention to. Like a train accident that has released toxic gas, requiring immediate evacuation, even if it's 3am. As it is, an alert at 3am will be ignored, since the system has been abused by the idiots running it.

chunk_waffle 4y ago
Or how about the 3:30 AM follow up alert letting you know the child was found and is fine.
bogota 4y ago
The government gets to re discovered alert fatigue i guess… instead of just asking anyone who has ever been on call
dtjb 4y ago
It's getting worse. Most US states [1] have started to use the phone siren system for injured cops as well. Regardless of your politics on this, what exactly am I supposed to do with a notification at 2AM that a cop was shot 400 miles away? Seems like the phone alert system is being used to push public perceptions rather than public safety. [1] https://cops.usdoj.gov/BlueAlert https://cops.usdoj.gov/BlueAlert
- coldpie 4y ago
  > Seems like the phone alert system is being used to push public perceptions rather than public safety. Yes, they absolutely are. Just a couple weeks ago, local law enforcement sent out an incredibly vague shelter-in-place active-shooter alert across the entire Twin Cities area for a situation in a suburb that was resolved about five minutes later[1]. Schools were locked down, buildings closed, etc. And wouldn't you know it, there's an election in two weeks where the Republicans, who the police unanimously endorse and campaign for, are running on a "crime is out of control" narrative! Crazy coincidence, that. [1] The entirety of the message was, "Shelter in place - Homicide suspect at large described as 17 year old white male." No location specified, sent to the entire urban region. https://www.startribune.com/shelter-in-place-alert-about-homicide-suspect-reaches-more-twin-cities-cellphones-than-intended/600218865/ https://www.startribune.com/shelter-in-place-alert-about-hom...
  - bradleyankrom 4y ago
    FWIW, I live in Minneapolis and didn’t receive that alert (just confirmed that I have emergency alerts enabled in iOS).
    - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
      I was in my car in St. Paul at the time when the message went out. I heard the alarm and assumed that it was an Amber alert. When I got to the next stop light I glanced at my phone and saw two messages. One telling me to shelter in place (why?) and the next saying that the suspect was apprehended. This was completely useless and actually distracting considering that I was in heavy traffic at the time.
  - palmscenter 4y ago
    That shelter-in-place alert did not follow well-established practices that require more details in the content and more geographically limited alerts. The agency that sent this alert got an earful afterwards and presumably will update their training.
    - coldpie 4y ago
- palmscenter 4y ago
  The two instances where alerts are typically sent statewide are Blue and Amber. The theory in both is that the perp may be many miles away from where the incident took place. And that is often the case, especially with child abductions. Some states will not send alerts overnight and others will; it is a matter of state policy - and ultimately an issue for the ballot box.
Spoom 4y ago
Ontario is worse than most places because, at least as of a couple of years ago, they send all alerts as Presidential alerts, meaning they can't be turned off at all.
- RegnisGnaw 4y ago
  Its all Presidental Alerts. But its not just Ontario, its all of Canada!
MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
Don't forget the 3am alert is often because of a huge delay by countless bureaucrats too. Reading the message and finding out the incident or whatever happened 8 or 10 hours earlier is utterly ridiculous.
Beltalowda 4y ago
Part of the problem is that now the system is in place, if you don't use it and later it turns out that maybe perhaps possibly it could have helped, you've got the possibility of a career-ending hurricane of piss coming your way, civil and maybe even criminal suits, and all of that. Sending out an alert is in many ways a very rational choice, even when it doesn't really make any sense. Look how parents who don't handcuff their children to their wrists so they can keep an eye on them 24/7 are often treated.
RegnisGnaw 4y ago
There is no such thing as Phone/Mobile AMBER Alerts in Ontario. The US system has different levels of alerts: Presidential/National Alerts, AMBER Alerts, Extreme Weather Alerts, Dangerous Weather Alerts, etc. On my Pixel 6, everything but the Presidential/National Alerts can be disabled. Same with my wife's Galaxy S22. I assume the same for iPhones. However the Canadian system (which is heavily based on the American system) is setup differently. All alerts are sent as 'National/Presidential Alerts'. None of the other alert levels are used.
- acc_297 4y ago
  Ontario does have amber alerts https://amberalert.opp.ca/ https://amberalert.opp.ca/
  - RegnisGnaw 4y ago
    I'm not talking about AMBER Alert in General, I'm talking about the mobile phone warning system. The Canadian is based on the US system with different levels: National/Presidential Alert, AMBER Alert, Extreme Weather Alert, Dangerous Weather Alert, etc. However in our system, all alerts are sent as 'National/Presidential Alert'.
- Elyra 4y ago
  Which provider are you with? They show up as Amber alerts for me and can be disabled from my unlocked pixel (stock os, not rooted) with bell. I have confirmed this by being with other people when an alert happened to go off. Usually though I leave them on and silenced (seems to respect my ringer volume and do not disturb settings).
  - RegnisGnaw 4y ago
    What province?
    - Elyra 4y ago
      Ontario
tablespoon 4y ago
> Amber alerts are bad. We get them now and them in Ontario at 3am, sent to the entire (rather large) province. This is idiotic. The probability that someone would be awake and in a position to observe an abducted child at 3am is negligible. The probability that someone woken at 3am will not be able to get back to sleep, drive to work in the morning when drowsy, and consequently get into an accident that kills someone, is not negligible. That's why I disable them totally. In my experience, they're always just a description of a car, and realistically there's literally nothing I can do with that information. When I'm at home, I'm not going to check license plates, and when I'm driving I'm not going to check my phone (nor remember a random license plate number for more than 10 seconds to check anything). They're also always "non-custodial parent took the kids," and I'm pretty sure the police in that case can quickly discover much better information than I could ever give them. There was one recently in my area that a friend of mine received. Later I read in the paper that they just tracked the guy's cell phone to find him.
Elyra 4y ago
They're also very distracting while driving, especially if you're relying on maps since they cover the entire screen.

chunk_waffle 4y ago

Or how about the 3:30 AM follow up alert letting you know the child was found and is fine.

bogota 4y ago

The government gets to re discovered alert fatigue i guess… instead of just asking anyone who has ever been on call

dtjb 4y ago

It's getting worse. Most US states [1] have started to use the phone siren system for injured cops as well. Regardless of your politics on this, what exactly am I supposed to do with a notification at 2AM that a cop was shot 400 miles away? Seems like the phone alert system is being used to push public perceptions rather than public safety. [1] https://cops.usdoj.gov/BlueAlert https://cops.usdoj.gov/BlueAlert

coldpie 4y ago
> Seems like the phone alert system is being used to push public perceptions rather than public safety. Yes, they absolutely are. Just a couple weeks ago, local law enforcement sent out an incredibly vague shelter-in-place active-shooter alert across the entire Twin Cities area for a situation in a suburb that was resolved about five minutes later[1]. Schools were locked down, buildings closed, etc. And wouldn't you know it, there's an election in two weeks where the Republicans, who the police unanimously endorse and campaign for, are running on a "crime is out of control" narrative! Crazy coincidence, that. [1] The entirety of the message was, "Shelter in place - Homicide suspect at large described as 17 year old white male." No location specified, sent to the entire urban region. https://www.startribune.com/shelter-in-place-alert-about-homicide-suspect-reaches-more-twin-cities-cellphones-than-intended/600218865/ https://www.startribune.com/shelter-in-place-alert-about-hom...
- bradleyankrom 4y ago
  FWIW, I live in Minneapolis and didn’t receive that alert (just confirmed that I have emergency alerts enabled in iOS).
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    I was in my car in St. Paul at the time when the message went out. I heard the alarm and assumed that it was an Amber alert. When I got to the next stop light I glanced at my phone and saw two messages. One telling me to shelter in place (why?) and the next saying that the suspect was apprehended. This was completely useless and actually distracting considering that I was in heavy traffic at the time.
- palmscenter 4y ago
  That shelter-in-place alert did not follow well-established practices that require more details in the content and more geographically limited alerts. The agency that sent this alert got an earful afterwards and presumably will update their training.
  - coldpie 4y ago
palmscenter 4y ago
The two instances where alerts are typically sent statewide are Blue and Amber. The theory in both is that the perp may be many miles away from where the incident took place. And that is often the case, especially with child abductions. Some states will not send alerts overnight and others will; it is a matter of state policy - and ultimately an issue for the ballot box.

Spoom 4y ago

Ontario is worse than most places because, at least as of a couple of years ago, they send all alerts as Presidential alerts, meaning they can't be turned off at all.

RegnisGnaw 4y ago
Its all Presidental Alerts. But its not just Ontario, its all of Canada!

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago

Don't forget the 3am alert is often because of a huge delay by countless bureaucrats too. Reading the message and finding out the incident or whatever happened 8 or 10 hours earlier is utterly ridiculous.

Beltalowda 4y ago

Part of the problem is that now the system is in place, if you don't use it and later it turns out that maybe perhaps possibly it could have helped, you've got the possibility of a career-ending hurricane of piss coming your way, civil and maybe even criminal suits, and all of that. Sending out an alert is in many ways a very rational choice, even when it doesn't really make any sense. Look how parents who don't handcuff their children to their wrists so they can keep an eye on them 24/7 are often treated.

RegnisGnaw 4y ago

There is no such thing as Phone/Mobile AMBER Alerts in Ontario. The US system has different levels of alerts: Presidential/National Alerts, AMBER Alerts, Extreme Weather Alerts, Dangerous Weather Alerts, etc. On my Pixel 6, everything but the Presidential/National Alerts can be disabled. Same with my wife's Galaxy S22. I assume the same for iPhones. However the Canadian system (which is heavily based on the American system) is setup differently. All alerts are sent as 'National/Presidential Alerts'. None of the other alert levels are used.

acc_297 4y ago
Ontario does have amber alerts https://amberalert.opp.ca/ https://amberalert.opp.ca/
- RegnisGnaw 4y ago
  I'm not talking about AMBER Alert in General, I'm talking about the mobile phone warning system. The Canadian is based on the US system with different levels: National/Presidential Alert, AMBER Alert, Extreme Weather Alert, Dangerous Weather Alert, etc. However in our system, all alerts are sent as 'National/Presidential Alert'.
Elyra 4y ago
Which provider are you with? They show up as Amber alerts for me and can be disabled from my unlocked pixel (stock os, not rooted) with bell. I have confirmed this by being with other people when an alert happened to go off. Usually though I leave them on and silenced (seems to respect my ringer volume and do not disturb settings).
- RegnisGnaw 4y ago
  What province?
  - Elyra 4y ago
    Ontario

tablespoon 4y ago

> Amber alerts are bad. We get them now and them in Ontario at 3am, sent to the entire (rather large) province. This is idiotic. The probability that someone would be awake and in a position to observe an abducted child at 3am is negligible. The probability that someone woken at 3am will not be able to get back to sleep, drive to work in the morning when drowsy, and consequently get into an accident that kills someone, is not negligible. That's why I disable them totally. In my experience, they're always just a description of a car, and realistically there's literally nothing I can do with that information. When I'm at home, I'm not going to check license plates, and when I'm driving I'm not going to check my phone (nor remember a random license plate number for more than 10 seconds to check anything). They're also always "non-custodial parent took the kids," and I'm pretty sure the police in that case can quickly discover much better information than I could ever give them. There was one recently in my area that a friend of mine received. Later I read in the paper that they just tracked the guy's cell phone to find him.

Elyra 4y ago

They're also very distracting while driving, especially if you're relying on maps since they cover the entire screen.