5 ms·

We can dream, but somehow I suspect that the "painful choices" Hunt warns of will fall more on the North.

by empedocles 4y ago

distcs 4y ago
I thought it was about health care and welfare.
- blitzar 4y ago
  hence why it will hit the north harder.
smcl 4y ago
Sadly I share your pessimism
- zeristor 4y ago
  One would think that there would be diminishing returns to more infrastructure in London, that some investment in the Power House North would do wonders. A high speed rail linking up Liverpool to Hull sounds like a good idea, there are the Penniness to drill though, but it would hardly be the Gotthard base tunnel would it. Pennine base tunnel anyone? [update: this turns out to be a study for a road tunnel] https://transportforthenorth.com/wp-content/uploads/trans-pennine-tunnel-strategic-study-stage-3-report.pdf https://transportforthenorth.com/wp-content/uploads/trans-pe...
  - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
    Tory governments have negative interest in "levelling up" the North. There's a lot of rhetoric, but all the action has been destructive. Liverpool to Hull would be transformative, as would an improved service to London. But the Leeds leg of HS2 was (predictably) one of the first things to be cut, so I wouldn't expect either to happen any time soon.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      Its pretty terrible, that line would have had a major capacity impact on all the other Eastern lines. It goes a long way destroying the major benefits of HS2.
  - youngtaff 4y ago
    HS2 does more than just improve transport around London, it improves transport in the regions it goes through be separating local and high speed rail Midlands Connect cover some of the gains they’ll get in these docs https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/publications/hs2-released-capacity/ https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/publications/hs2-released-cap... Those gains are part of the reason HS2 should go all the way to Scotland and why the Northern Powerhouse route from Hull to Liverpool should be built too
  - lmm 4y ago
    > One would think that there would be diminishing returns to more infrastructure in London, that some investment in the Power House North would do wonders. Why would one think that? Everything we see suggests returns are compounding rather than diminishing.
pjc50 4y ago
Tories are absolutely itching to cancel HS2 at the point just after all the money has been spent and disruption incurred, but before the benefits can be realized. It's like the cancellation of the UK's space programme at the exact moment they were about to do their first (and in the end only) launch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow
- DrBazza 4y ago
  Not really the ‘tories’ just some of them. The northern Tory MPs certainly want it. It is funded by long dated bonds. Not immediate taxation as it’s a nationally significant capital project. So cancelling bits of it looks good on paper only but makes zero immediate impact. As a Return on investment, every pound spent in the south east on infrastructure returns 5 times or more in the local economy compared to the rest of the Uk, which is how these projects are prioritised. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-phase-one-full-business-case https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-phase-one-ful...

We can dream, but somehow I suspect that the "painful choices" Hunt warns of will fall more on the North.

distcs 4y ago

I thought it was about health care and welfare.

blitzar 4y ago
hence why it will hit the north harder.

smcl 4y ago

Sadly I share your pessimism

zeristor 4y ago
One would think that there would be diminishing returns to more infrastructure in London, that some investment in the Power House North would do wonders. A high speed rail linking up Liverpool to Hull sounds like a good idea, there are the Penniness to drill though, but it would hardly be the Gotthard base tunnel would it. Pennine base tunnel anyone? [update: this turns out to be a study for a road tunnel] https://transportforthenorth.com/wp-content/uploads/trans-pennine-tunnel-strategic-study-stage-3-report.pdf https://transportforthenorth.com/wp-content/uploads/trans-pe...
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  Tory governments have negative interest in "levelling up" the North. There's a lot of rhetoric, but all the action has been destructive. Liverpool to Hull would be transformative, as would an improved service to London. But the Leeds leg of HS2 was (predictably) one of the first things to be cut, so I wouldn't expect either to happen any time soon.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    Its pretty terrible, that line would have had a major capacity impact on all the other Eastern lines. It goes a long way destroying the major benefits of HS2.
- youngtaff 4y ago
  HS2 does more than just improve transport around London, it improves transport in the regions it goes through be separating local and high speed rail Midlands Connect cover some of the gains they’ll get in these docs https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/publications/hs2-released-capacity/ https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/publications/hs2-released-cap... Those gains are part of the reason HS2 should go all the way to Scotland and why the Northern Powerhouse route from Hull to Liverpool should be built too
- lmm 4y ago
  > One would think that there would be diminishing returns to more infrastructure in London, that some investment in the Power House North would do wonders. Why would one think that? Everything we see suggests returns are compounding rather than diminishing.

pjc50 4y ago

Tories are absolutely itching to cancel HS2 at the point just after all the money has been spent and disruption incurred, but before the benefits can be realized. It's like the cancellation of the UK's space programme at the exact moment they were about to do their first (and in the end only) launch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow

DrBazza 4y ago
Not really the ‘tories’ just some of them. The northern Tory MPs certainly want it. It is funded by long dated bonds. Not immediate taxation as it’s a nationally significant capital project. So cancelling bits of it looks good on paper only but makes zero immediate impact. As a Return on investment, every pound spent in the south east on infrastructure returns 5 times or more in the local economy compared to the rest of the Uk, which is how these projects are prioritised. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-phase-one-full-business-case https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-phase-one-ful...