5 ms·

School of Haskell: Basics (2013)

93 points by bjourne 4y ago

CraigJPerry 4y ago
Who would this be for? It feels very introductory but haskell is unlikely to be one of your first programming languages[1]? The same author wrote a very popular book about category theory that introduces Haskell in a way i’d think most developers would find more tractable. [1] there’s exceptions of course, at UofG they threw Haskell at us right after Ada back in at the turn of the millennium. That’s an interesting trajectory for course design, first lang is ada and second is haskell
- louthy 4y ago
  I wish I’d learned Haskell as my first language, rather than the imperative/OO route.
- jpitz 4y ago
  From TFA: "A gentle introduction to Haskell for beginners. The prerequisite for this series of tutorials is some knowledge of imperative programming, whether C++, Java, Pascal, you name it. If you have some familiarity with functional programming, that's even better."
- LinasKo 4y ago
  In Edinburgh (2013) we did get Haskell as the very first language of the very first course (yes, functional programming before OOP!). Having coded before, I was pretty confused, why would they do that, but it ended up being an amazing equalizer. We all started at similar levels of understanding and ramped up together.
- adamredwoods 4y ago
  Order of precedence to correctly read code can be tricky. I learned a bit about Haskell today! pyth 3 * 2 pyth -1 8
ilovecaching 4y ago
I spent years wasting time on Haskell and wouldn’t recommend it unless you find joy in the purely academic. I’ve never found a practical application for my knowledge and no one has ever paid me to write it. I suppose if I were willing to take a huge pay cut I could have found something, but you’re far better off completely mastering Go, C++, Python, gaining systems knowledge, etc. which people will pay you good money for. The “it teaches you to think a certain way” is IMO a really weak argument. It’s extremely difficult to master one language and you’re far better off going deep in something useful than exposing yourself at a surface level to every technology and paradigm.
- nequo 4y ago
  Given the similarities in their type systems, languages like Rust or Scala might be easier to pick up with some Haskell knowledge than without. Has that not been your experience?
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    You know what would make easier pick up languages like Rust and Scala? Actually using them, and not making a detour into the language that has different goals.
    - nequo 4y ago
      You have a point. The best way to learn is to do. I am lucky because I can use Haskell simply because I enjoy it and don’t need to worry who will pay me for it as long as I produce the output.
    - JadeNB 4y ago
      > You know what would make easier pick up languages like Rust and Scala? Actually using them, and not making a detour into the language that has different goals. While this is pithily said, I think it is not unreasonable to disagree. It may be that a language that makes unrealistic assumptions and sacrifices almost everything to maintaining a theoretical vision may make it easier to understand that vision, on top of which understanding you can then layer the necessary compromises more easily than you could by learning both theory and compromises at the same time.
_query 4y ago
If you're interested in building web apps with Haskell, check out IHP. IHP is the Laravel/Rails/Django of the Haskell world. Might be a more pragmatic way to get into Haskell than SchoolOfHaskell - Intro video demoing how to build apps with IHP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbDtS_mUMpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbDtS_mUMpI - Docs to get started: https://ihp.digitallyinduced.com/Guide/index.html https://ihp.digitallyinduced.com/Guide/index.html - IHP reviews: https://www.g2.com/products/ihp/reviews https://www.g2.com/products/ihp/reviews
- SomeoneEsle123 4y ago
  IHP seems great, but I found it very hard to work with. The guide said it takes 15 minutes to build initially...it took my laptop 1 1/2 hours. And I didn't use cachix (no idea what it was, didn't want it to mess with my system) so after a nix-gc I had to build again... And the pro version costs $300/year, and goes up to $1500/year if you make $20k. That might be good for a huge company, but if that's a side project or a solo dev's income, that's way too expensive.
  - _query 4y ago
    Cachix manages the prebuilt binaries used by IHP. If you don't install Cachix, nix will compile a lot of IHP's dependencies from scratch. This takes a long while and is not recommended.
    - SomeoneEsle123 4y ago
      It manages the prebuilt binaries...but requires being run as root or adding myself to the list of Nix trustedUsers...on an OS level. Both of those things are scary and dangerous. I don't know what your software or Cachix is doing. Can you tell me exactly what it will be doing to my system? What changes? Does it use a lot of disk space? Is it easy to undo? And is there anyone who recommends doing it who isn't associated to IHP?
  - bluepoint 4y ago
    Let alone that it appears on any forum that ever mentions haskell these days.

93 points by bjourne 4y ago

Who would this be for? It feels very introductory but haskell is unlikely to be one of your first programming languages[1]? The same author wrote a very popular book about category theory that introduces Haskell in a way i’d think most developers would find more tractable. [1] there’s exceptions of course, at UofG they threw Haskell at us right after Ada back in at the turn of the millennium. That’s an interesting trajectory for course design, first lang is ada and second is haskell

louthy 4y ago
I wish I’d learned Haskell as my first language, rather than the imperative/OO route.
jpitz 4y ago
From TFA: "A gentle introduction to Haskell for beginners. The prerequisite for this series of tutorials is some knowledge of imperative programming, whether C++, Java, Pascal, you name it. If you have some familiarity with functional programming, that's even better."
LinasKo 4y ago
In Edinburgh (2013) we did get Haskell as the very first language of the very first course (yes, functional programming before OOP!). Having coded before, I was pretty confused, why would they do that, but it ended up being an amazing equalizer. We all started at similar levels of understanding and ramped up together.
adamredwoods 4y ago
Order of precedence to correctly read code can be tricky. I learned a bit about Haskell today! pyth 3 * 2 pyth -1 8

ilovecaching 4y ago

I spent years wasting time on Haskell and wouldn’t recommend it unless you find joy in the purely academic. I’ve never found a practical application for my knowledge and no one has ever paid me to write it. I suppose if I were willing to take a huge pay cut I could have found something, but you’re far better off completely mastering Go, C++, Python, gaining systems knowledge, etc. which people will pay you good money for. The “it teaches you to think a certain way” is IMO a really weak argument. It’s extremely difficult to master one language and you’re far better off going deep in something useful than exposing yourself at a surface level to every technology and paradigm.

nequo 4y ago
Given the similarities in their type systems, languages like Rust or Scala might be easier to pick up with some Haskell knowledge than without. Has that not been your experience?
- wiseowise 4y ago
  You know what would make easier pick up languages like Rust and Scala? Actually using them, and not making a detour into the language that has different goals.
  - nequo 4y ago
    You have a point. The best way to learn is to do. I am lucky because I can use Haskell simply because I enjoy it and don’t need to worry who will pay me for it as long as I produce the output.
  - JadeNB 4y ago
    > You know what would make easier pick up languages like Rust and Scala? Actually using them, and not making a detour into the language that has different goals. While this is pithily said, I think it is not unreasonable to disagree. It may be that a language that makes unrealistic assumptions and sacrifices almost everything to maintaining a theoretical vision may make it easier to understand that vision, on top of which understanding you can then layer the necessary compromises more easily than you could by learning both theory and compromises at the same time.

_query 4y ago

If you're interested in building web apps with Haskell, check out IHP. IHP is the Laravel/Rails/Django of the Haskell world. Might be a more pragmatic way to get into Haskell than SchoolOfHaskell - Intro video demoing how to build apps with IHP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbDtS_mUMpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbDtS_mUMpI - Docs to get started: https://ihp.digitallyinduced.com/Guide/index.html https://ihp.digitallyinduced.com/Guide/index.html - IHP reviews: https://www.g2.com/products/ihp/reviews https://www.g2.com/products/ihp/reviews

SomeoneEsle123 4y ago
IHP seems great, but I found it very hard to work with. The guide said it takes 15 minutes to build initially...it took my laptop 1 1/2 hours. And I didn't use cachix (no idea what it was, didn't want it to mess with my system) so after a nix-gc I had to build again... And the pro version costs $300/year, and goes up to $1500/year if you make $20k. That might be good for a huge company, but if that's a side project or a solo dev's income, that's way too expensive.
- _query 4y ago
  Cachix manages the prebuilt binaries used by IHP. If you don't install Cachix, nix will compile a lot of IHP's dependencies from scratch. This takes a long while and is not recommended.
  - SomeoneEsle123 4y ago
    It manages the prebuilt binaries...but requires being run as root or adding myself to the list of Nix trustedUsers...on an OS level. Both of those things are scary and dangerous. I don't know what your software or Cachix is doing. Can you tell me exactly what it will be doing to my system? What changes? Does it use a lot of disk space? Is it easy to undo? And is there anyone who recommends doing it who isn't associated to IHP?
- bluepoint 4y ago
  Let alone that it appears on any forum that ever mentions haskell these days.