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The counterpoint to the items you listed as Europe doing better than the United States (better infrastructure is very debatable) is that Europe suffers from per

The counterpoint to the items you listed as Europe doing better than the United States (better infrastructure is very debatable) is that Europe suffers from perpetual stagnant economic growth, extremely low tech worker pay, brain drain of the best talent leaving for the US and few revolutionary tech ideas. The American ideology can't be dismissed as simply benefitting a few CEOs when there's so so many Americans earning compensation well above what's possible for a European. Granted, it comes at the expense of the lower class in the US, but as you point out, it depends on the ideology.

achenet 4y ago
having lived in both the US and Europe for over a decade each - I'd rather have happier poor people that happier rich people. The sign of a first world country isn't having a bunch of billionaires - you have those in Brazil and Russia. It's when the poorest people in your country still can have healthy, meaningful lives. Honestly, from my point of view, the US is a 3rd world country, but I expect that viewpoint to be very controversial.
- prottog 4y ago
  You're right, I find that point of view to be very controversial. I've been to rich and poor parts of the US and Europe, and currently live in a US state that's in the bottom quintile of per capita incomes among states. There's absolutely no comparison to actual third world countries. I'd love to hear your supporting arguments for your position.
- boeingUH60 4y ago
  > Honestly, from my point of view, the US is a 3rd world country, but I expect that viewpoint to be very controversial. As someone who lives in a real third-world country...I'm of the opinion that this is a silly thing to say. Yeah, the world's biggest economy ($23T GDP) that constantly sends payloads to outer space and back is third-world...maybe you could come live in a place with 80% of people below the poverty line and see what third-world is.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    This is a good perspective, I can’t imagine anyone who has lived in or spent any significant time in a third world country making such a ridiculous claim. When a country’s poor can still manage to be overweight, have cell phones, have gaming consoles, have automobiles…your perception of poor might be a tad subjective. And before folks go off on the “what abouts”, yes I realize there are some folks in the US without those things, but let’s face it, you sample just about any “poor” person in the US, you will find at least 50%+ of the things I listed. I doubt that you could do that with a random sample of the poor in say Burundi
    - djmips 4y ago
      Cell phones are ubiquitous now even in poor countries.
jacooper 4y ago
I think a good way to summarize it is: The life in the EU is good for everyone, In the US its great for the rich and high earners, but hell for everyone else.
- prottog 4y ago
  > but hell for everyone else Maybe "not as good for everyone else", but "hell" is such a big exaggeration. I know plenty of working-class people -- think barbers, construction workers, baristas -- who live happy lives. The US isn't some dystopia where if you're not a millionaire you're living in a slum.

achenet 4y ago

having lived in both the US and Europe for over a decade each - I'd rather have happier poor people that happier rich people. The sign of a first world country isn't having a bunch of billionaires - you have those in Brazil and Russia. It's when the poorest people in your country still can have healthy, meaningful lives. Honestly, from my point of view, the US is a 3rd world country, but I expect that viewpoint to be very controversial.

prottog 4y ago
You're right, I find that point of view to be very controversial. I've been to rich and poor parts of the US and Europe, and currently live in a US state that's in the bottom quintile of per capita incomes among states. There's absolutely no comparison to actual third world countries. I'd love to hear your supporting arguments for your position.
boeingUH60 4y ago
> Honestly, from my point of view, the US is a 3rd world country, but I expect that viewpoint to be very controversial. As someone who lives in a real third-world country...I'm of the opinion that this is a silly thing to say. Yeah, the world's biggest economy ($23T GDP) that constantly sends payloads to outer space and back is third-world...maybe you could come live in a place with 80% of people below the poverty line and see what third-world is.
- kcplate 4y ago
  This is a good perspective, I can’t imagine anyone who has lived in or spent any significant time in a third world country making such a ridiculous claim. When a country’s poor can still manage to be overweight, have cell phones, have gaming consoles, have automobiles…your perception of poor might be a tad subjective. And before folks go off on the “what abouts”, yes I realize there are some folks in the US without those things, but let’s face it, you sample just about any “poor” person in the US, you will find at least 50%+ of the things I listed. I doubt that you could do that with a random sample of the poor in say Burundi
  - djmips 4y ago
    Cell phones are ubiquitous now even in poor countries.

jacooper 4y ago

I think a good way to summarize it is: The life in the EU is good for everyone, In the US its great for the rich and high earners, but hell for everyone else.

prottog 4y ago
> but hell for everyone else Maybe "not as good for everyone else", but "hell" is such a big exaggeration. I know plenty of working-class people -- think barbers, construction workers, baristas -- who live happy lives. The US isn't some dystopia where if you're not a millionaire you're living in a slum.