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> TikTok (Douyin) also operates in China. No kid is spared. Can’t vouch for the following observation, since I’ve never used either one, but: "In their versio

> TikTok (Douyin) also operates in China. No kid is spared. Can’t vouch for the following observation, since I’ve never used either one, but: "In their version of TikTok, if you're under 14 years old, they show you science experiments you can do at home, museum exhibits, patriotism videos and educational videos," said Tristan Harris, co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology. "And they also limit it to only 40 minutes per day. Now they don't ship that version of TikTok to the rest of the world. So it's almost like they recognize that technology's influencing kids' development, and they make their domestic version a spinach version of TikTok, while they ship the opium version to the rest of the world," https://thepostmillennial.com/tiktoks-chinese-platform-enriches-kids-while-us-version-dumbs-them-down-report https://thepostmillennial.com/tiktoks-chinese-platform-enric...

asutekku 4y ago
Any kind of amusing content for kids is time restricted in china. If a western game company wants to get into the market, they need to implement time limits & age checks.
- lozenge 4y ago
  Are they linked at all? Otherwise if you add up all the time limits they must exceed a day...
  - jojo259 4y ago
    Yes, they're linked by some form of government ID. Of course, it's probably very easy to get around that in some manner by just playing offline games or using a parent's ID.
    - mcculley 4y ago
      The question is asking about multiple apps coordinating. Wouldn’t this require a central database and an API for querying/updating time spent in an app per ID? Where is that API?
      - jojo259 4y ago
        Yes that's what I meant, the apps coordinate by being linked to some government ID. At least that's what I've heard.
        mcculley 4y ago
        I am quite skeptical of this. There would have to be an API. There would have to be documentation for that. There would likely be keys assigned to individual apps.
        veqq 4y ago
        They do this. Basically everything runs straight through wechat, as if the facebook appstore hadn't lost relevance. Wechat is the api in most cases. You can even go to court on it.
        mcculley 4y ago
        Every app is using WeChat? TikTok coordinates with WeChat? Or uses the same API? Is this documented somewhere?
        veqq 4y ago
        I've dug into this more out of curiosity: They're called "mini programs" (小程序): You can see the dev pages etc. here: https://developers.weixin.qq.com/miniprogram/en/introduction/ https://developers.weixin.qq.com/miniprogram/en/introduction... These days, the vast majority of mobile development happens on this platform. They can have 100 million daily users in some cases. Otherwise, you have to get an approval license from the government, per game. This had been blocked for a long time until recently: https://www.thegamer.com/china-approving-game-licenses-again-stocks-soar/ https://www.thegamer.com/china-approving-game-licenses-again... These government pages discuss the process (but only in Chinese): https://www.nppa.gov.cn/nppa/channels/301.shtml https://www.nppa.gov.cn/nppa/channels/301.shtml or http://web.archive.org/web/20200605135934/www.sapprft.gov.cn/sapprft/contents/6588/407807.shtml http://web.archive.org/web/20200605135934/www.sapprft.gov.cn... Note, only Chinese companies can go through the process. Apparently the process includes interfacing with the API, which isn't public. But some guys I pmed on reddit said they can interact with government ID servers or wechat auth. The 2nd api is public: https://developers.weixin.qq.com/doc/oplatform/en/Mobile_App/WeChat_Login/Development_Guide.html https://developers.weixin.qq.com/doc/oplatform/en/Mobile_App...
hdra 4y ago
Are they doing that voluntarily? Or is that something that is forced on them by the government?
- chrischen 4y ago
  Regulation. That basically sums up American and Chinese political differences.
- dragonelite 4y ago
  When is regulation ever voluntarily? From what i heard Chinese parents complained to their government about their children losing time on social media and their government reacted by regulating that space in their society.
bakuninsbart 4y ago
When have we ever expected companies to do the right thing? Governments are needed to come up with regulations for that, but restricting which content or how much someone can consume, even kids, would be touted as deeply authoritarian in our societies. So the otus is then on parents...
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  > restricting which content or how much someone can consume, even kids, would be touted as deeply authoritarian in our societies No. We have industry-voluntary schemes such as PEGI ratings, and most products have kid-friendly modes. Spotify, Netflix, YouTube, Disney Plus, Amazon Prime all have kid-specific modes, for example. They're selling to parents, and that's what parents want, so that's what they get. You're right that governments are needed to make regulations, but not that regulations are needed.
  - Arainach 4y ago
    Parents also want cheap gas and big engines that make them feel macho, and to be able to use hand me down car seats of dubious safety. Sometimes what's good for society takes precedence over what people want.
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      Sometimes, as you say. Even the car seats fall into the not-society category more than the society category. And happily your examples are nothing to do with the call for regulations on the topic of having kid-safe versions of content production, so I feel encouraged.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Won't someone think of the child-car-seat manufacturers?! The second hand market is driving them to ~bankruptcy~ [buying fewer yachts]! /s
  - richrichardsson 4y ago
    Where is the time limit in Netflix for Kids? All I see is a selection of content that is appropriate for children. It is much easier to set a limit on a device that is cold and inhuman and can't be pleaded with for more screen time than it is to try and manually enforce such a limit.
jryhjythtr 4y ago
For all their other sins, at least China seems aware of the dangers of unfettered access to all that "tech" has to offer. I've long been of the opinion that it's insane for a country to allow any agent (in the broadest sense of the word) anywhere in the world, direct and unlimited access to their citizens' life, thoughts, and desires through the internet.
wikfwikf 4y ago
So 1. The Chinese govt makes laws restricting these apps for young children which are only valid in China, 2. Tiktok obeys local laws in China and local laws in the US, 3. the US and other Western govts don't force social media companies to make the apps safer for children, and you are blaming the Chinese govt for making American kids stupid and addicted? How does the behavior of Instagram, Pinterest and others fit into this theory?
- richrichardsson 4y ago
  Very valid points until, "and you are blaming the Chinese". It was a quote of someone else.
  - tartoran 4y ago
    They may as well take advantage of the enemy’s weakness.
novalis78 4y ago
Who would have thought that WW3 is fought via social media apps.
- jryhjythtr 4y ago
  WW3 started years ago, and we have only just started to realise. The objective of this war is to turn the citizens of your enemies' countries into useless, self-absorbed, self-hating nobodies. For those of you who have read The Hobbit, I see the "Culture War" as something more akin to the scene in that book where the trolls were turned to stone. That is - while we may think we are involved in some great "culture war", fighting the (online) forces of anti-democracy, bigotry, racism, etc etc - actually all that is intended is that we are arguing amongst ourselves.
  - novalis78 4y ago
    I have come to a similar conclusion. The intelligence services seem to be completely oblivious to any of it and are still staring at the horizon for some enemy plane to enter their territorial space when at home their daughters and at college their sons get run over by algorithmically enhanced fine-tuned propaganda: to either weaken their bodies, drug up their minds or cannibalize their culture. That’s taking the second front of the late Cold War to an entirely new level of warfare. But maybe I am mistaken.
m348e912 4y ago
I'd love to have someone verify this. If you type Douyin into YouTube you see the platform contains the same nonsense videos that TikTok has. So we know the content is similar. The question is the experience really different for users under 14. And if so, how is this enforced? If it's a matter of stating your birth date when you sign up then I don't think the restriction means much.
- rasz 4y ago
  Might be problematic if they enforce identity verification. With social passports and other nonsense it might be impossible to just register new anonymous account.
afpx 4y ago
opium wars?

asutekku 4y ago

Any kind of amusing content for kids is time restricted in china. If a western game company wants to get into the market, they need to implement time limits & age checks.

lozenge 4y ago
Are they linked at all? Otherwise if you add up all the time limits they must exceed a day...
- jojo259 4y ago
  Yes, they're linked by some form of government ID. Of course, it's probably very easy to get around that in some manner by just playing offline games or using a parent's ID.
  - mcculley 4y ago
    The question is asking about multiple apps coordinating. Wouldn’t this require a central database and an API for querying/updating time spent in an app per ID? Where is that API?
    - jojo259 4y ago
      Yes that's what I meant, the apps coordinate by being linked to some government ID. At least that's what I've heard.
      - mcculley 4y ago
        I am quite skeptical of this. There would have to be an API. There would have to be documentation for that. There would likely be keys assigned to individual apps.
        veqq 4y ago
        They do this. Basically everything runs straight through wechat, as if the facebook appstore hadn't lost relevance. Wechat is the api in most cases. You can even go to court on it.
        mcculley 4y ago
        Every app is using WeChat? TikTok coordinates with WeChat? Or uses the same API? Is this documented somewhere?
        veqq 4y ago
        I've dug into this more out of curiosity: They're called "mini programs" (小程序): You can see the dev pages etc. here: https://developers.weixin.qq.com/miniprogram/en/introduction/ https://developers.weixin.qq.com/miniprogram/en/introduction... These days, the vast majority of mobile development happens on this platform. They can have 100 million daily users in some cases. Otherwise, you have to get an approval license from the government, per game. This had been blocked for a long time until recently: https://www.thegamer.com/china-approving-game-licenses-again-stocks-soar/ https://www.thegamer.com/china-approving-game-licenses-again... These government pages discuss the process (but only in Chinese): https://www.nppa.gov.cn/nppa/channels/301.shtml https://www.nppa.gov.cn/nppa/channels/301.shtml or http://web.archive.org/web/20200605135934/www.sapprft.gov.cn/sapprft/contents/6588/407807.shtml http://web.archive.org/web/20200605135934/www.sapprft.gov.cn... Note, only Chinese companies can go through the process. Apparently the process includes interfacing with the API, which isn't public. But some guys I pmed on reddit said they can interact with government ID servers or wechat auth. The 2nd api is public: https://developers.weixin.qq.com/doc/oplatform/en/Mobile_App/WeChat_Login/Development_Guide.html https://developers.weixin.qq.com/doc/oplatform/en/Mobile_App...

hdra 4y ago

Are they doing that voluntarily? Or is that something that is forced on them by the government?

chrischen 4y ago
Regulation. That basically sums up American and Chinese political differences.
dragonelite 4y ago
When is regulation ever voluntarily? From what i heard Chinese parents complained to their government about their children losing time on social media and their government reacted by regulating that space in their society.

bakuninsbart 4y ago

When have we ever expected companies to do the right thing? Governments are needed to come up with regulations for that, but restricting which content or how much someone can consume, even kids, would be touted as deeply authoritarian in our societies. So the otus is then on parents...

robertlagrant 4y ago
> restricting which content or how much someone can consume, even kids, would be touted as deeply authoritarian in our societies No. We have industry-voluntary schemes such as PEGI ratings, and most products have kid-friendly modes. Spotify, Netflix, YouTube, Disney Plus, Amazon Prime all have kid-specific modes, for example. They're selling to parents, and that's what parents want, so that's what they get. You're right that governments are needed to make regulations, but not that regulations are needed.
- Arainach 4y ago
  Parents also want cheap gas and big engines that make them feel macho, and to be able to use hand me down car seats of dubious safety. Sometimes what's good for society takes precedence over what people want.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    Sometimes, as you say. Even the car seats fall into the not-society category more than the society category. And happily your examples are nothing to do with the call for regulations on the topic of having kid-safe versions of content production, so I feel encouraged.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Won't someone think of the child-car-seat manufacturers?! The second hand market is driving them to ~bankruptcy~ [buying fewer yachts]! /s
- richrichardsson 4y ago
  Where is the time limit in Netflix for Kids? All I see is a selection of content that is appropriate for children. It is much easier to set a limit on a device that is cold and inhuman and can't be pleaded with for more screen time than it is to try and manually enforce such a limit.

jryhjythtr 4y ago

For all their other sins, at least China seems aware of the dangers of unfettered access to all that "tech" has to offer. I've long been of the opinion that it's insane for a country to allow any agent (in the broadest sense of the word) anywhere in the world, direct and unlimited access to their citizens' life, thoughts, and desires through the internet.

wikfwikf 4y ago

So 1. The Chinese govt makes laws restricting these apps for young children which are only valid in China, 2. Tiktok obeys local laws in China and local laws in the US, 3. the US and other Western govts don't force social media companies to make the apps safer for children, and you are blaming the Chinese govt for making American kids stupid and addicted? How does the behavior of Instagram, Pinterest and others fit into this theory?

richrichardsson 4y ago
Very valid points until, "and you are blaming the Chinese". It was a quote of someone else.
- tartoran 4y ago
  They may as well take advantage of the enemy’s weakness.

novalis78 4y ago

Who would have thought that WW3 is fought via social media apps.

jryhjythtr 4y ago
WW3 started years ago, and we have only just started to realise. The objective of this war is to turn the citizens of your enemies' countries into useless, self-absorbed, self-hating nobodies. For those of you who have read The Hobbit, I see the "Culture War" as something more akin to the scene in that book where the trolls were turned to stone. That is - while we may think we are involved in some great "culture war", fighting the (online) forces of anti-democracy, bigotry, racism, etc etc - actually all that is intended is that we are arguing amongst ourselves.
- novalis78 4y ago
  I have come to a similar conclusion. The intelligence services seem to be completely oblivious to any of it and are still staring at the horizon for some enemy plane to enter their territorial space when at home their daughters and at college their sons get run over by algorithmically enhanced fine-tuned propaganda: to either weaken their bodies, drug up their minds or cannibalize their culture. That’s taking the second front of the late Cold War to an entirely new level of warfare. But maybe I am mistaken.

m348e912 4y ago

I'd love to have someone verify this. If you type Douyin into YouTube you see the platform contains the same nonsense videos that TikTok has. So we know the content is similar. The question is the experience really different for users under 14. And if so, how is this enforced? If it's a matter of stating your birth date when you sign up then I don't think the restriction means much.

rasz 4y ago
Might be problematic if they enforce identity verification. With social passports and other nonsense it might be impossible to just register new anonymous account.

afpx 4y ago

opium wars?