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As a hobby game programmer stable diffusion looks exciting, the idea of quickly generating some assets for a game jam is very appealing. But as a hobby musician

As a hobby game programmer stable diffusion looks exciting, the idea of quickly generating some assets for a game jam is very appealing. But as a hobby musician it strikes me hard. I want to write, compose and play my own music, so I would understand someone feeling the same with regards to hand drawing arts. This whole stable diffusion is exciting on one side, but on the other makes me wonder what we will be left with once this technology reaches higher capabilities?

yieldcrv 4y ago
Do the extended creative process for yourself Just like a hipster/enthusiast with a more manual photography and development process some people might appreciate it, the market likely wont but thats already the same before AI
mkmk3 4y ago
It looks bad for career artists. Maybe it's an important step in terms of human expression and communication though, that visual and musical art won't require years of skill to convey your ideas or emotions effectively. I don't have much of a solarpunk outlook on this, I don't think it's going to be that beneficial. It'd be nice to be wrong though.
- hollowturtle 4y ago
  That's actually my point, without the requirement of years skill building, what's left for us to do? Also, imo, what makes art so human is also failure, it's part of the game. e.g. a successful musician releasing a bad record, or a not more relevant musician that after years of experimentation reinvent himself and publish a great record. I don't have a clear outlook on this too, only questions about the future
- Applejinx 4y ago
  I don't know. I've put out an album largely driven by modular synth, meaning that I've got many percussion elements driven literally by a machine, defeating the need for me as a human to play drums in perfect time (which I'm not good at) But in doing that, I've spent years learning how the micro-timing of musical grooves work (some of it's very obvious, like how a heavy snare backbeat will lag slightly behind what the perfect time is, almost to the point of being a 'flam') As a result, I was able to make an album that conveyed certain kinds of groove not immediately accessible to novice musicians (or drummers)… but given the same information, any schmoe could push a button and have a preset in his DAW produce the same effect. I think to some extent if the person doesn't really understand the purpose or need for such an effect, their grasp of how to implement and craft it will be pretty loose. If you don't know why you're doing the effortless thing you're not going to guide it very well and your results will be kind of generic. Rather than thinking of years of skill, maybe call it years of focus, or years of purpose? To some extent, we collectively respond to creations with a profound sense of purpose. If that purpose comes out of AI it will have to be something from the AI, and not simply a blind reflection of us and our crudest drives.
ilkke 4y ago
Initially I had similar misgivings (I make visual art professionally and music as a hobby) but then I realised AI will not prevent me from creating my own stuff, it might just give me more options to use. A big part of my motivation is enjoying the artistic process itself, and I still get to choose my process. In terms of a productivity boost, it can give me the same boost as everyone else. Possibly even more as I have decades of experience. The biggest negative effect I anticipate is an endless stream of low effort content, bit TBH I think we were already there before the AI arrived. I feel this is more a matter of mental hygiene and culture and how we use technology, rather than the technology itself.
- danielbln 4y ago
  The silver lining is I guess that the low-effort content is of much higher technical quality than it was before, for better or for worse.
- hollowturtle 4y ago
  I can't talk about visual arts, but music market is actually appreciating a step back to a more organic/human sound. Although I must say it's actually a mixture of musicianship, recording techniques, better and fair use of electronics sounds and so on... So it actually might be like you said, that technology could empower artistic process. But, if we're already in an endless stream of low effort content(and I agree), how would you make yourself get noticed in an ocean of good enough crap once AI hits the public?
  - danielbln 4y ago
    If it's "good enough", is it really crap?
    - hollowturtle 4y ago
      I consider "good enough" stuff to be decently suitable for the general public not for the excellence
  - poisonarena 4y ago
vintermann 4y ago
I forget where I saw it, but there was a musician who made a good point: he said, I didn't do all the hard work of learning to play my instrument in order to impress you with my talent, I did it because I have all these songs in me that I desperately wanted to be able to express. I can understand that. In the visual domain, especially: how often haven't I thought about a story, my own or someone else's, and wished I could show people. I can also understand the dismay of some artists, who did all that hard work, and suddenly find that it's even harder to reach people with those songs, pictures and stories bubbling in them, because now so many others are able to express theirs too.
- pjc50 4y ago
  > I didn't do all the hard work of learning to play my instrument in order to impress you with my talent, I did it because I have all these songs in me that I desperately wanted to be able to express Markets for many kinds of art have already been driven to near zero, but I wonder if AI will drive them negative: if you want a human audience to give you their much-contended attention, you'll have to start paying them.
  - vintermann 4y ago
    Vanity publishing is already a thing, it might become bigger. But I don't think the price as such will become negative, because paying people to listen to you sort of defeats the point. You want to believe that the things you have to say are worthwhile, after all.
    - kridsdale2 4y ago
      Vanity Publishing is basically the entire economic force behind Social Media, and even traditional media. Inventor: I made a thing! I want people to know about it so they will want it, and pay me for my cool thing. Public: We can't notice you over the million other things to pay attention to. Inventor: Hey Mr. Zuckerberg, here's $100. MAKE THEM NOTICE ME.
_trampeltier 4y ago
Maybe it also feels a bit like mid 90s, when the Internet and Linux came up. Before I had just QBasic and Dos/ Windows. But the with Linux, you got so many compilers and with the Internet (and with CDs on Magazines) you got sooo many programs. For almost everything you would like to do, somebody wrote already a program.
gpderetta 4y ago
People play chess even if they don't have a chance at winning against an AI. And in Art there is no winning anyway. People will continue to paint, like they did after the invention of the photograph and photoshop. Same for music, films, etc.
- onemoresoop 4y ago
  Yes, as at a hobby level this is true. The problem is that fewer will embark on journey if low effort and a click of a button would compete with their years of hard work. Yes, they can use AI too but that's not what they signed up for in arts, there was a benefit of being able to be in a completely different space, away from the computers and engineering. Anyway, the cat's out of the bag, we shall see how it goes and I hope I am wrong.

yieldcrv 4y ago

Do the extended creative process for yourself Just like a hipster/enthusiast with a more manual photography and development process some people might appreciate it, the market likely wont but thats already the same before AI

mkmk3 4y ago

It looks bad for career artists. Maybe it's an important step in terms of human expression and communication though, that visual and musical art won't require years of skill to convey your ideas or emotions effectively. I don't have much of a solarpunk outlook on this, I don't think it's going to be that beneficial. It'd be nice to be wrong though.

hollowturtle 4y ago
That's actually my point, without the requirement of years skill building, what's left for us to do? Also, imo, what makes art so human is also failure, it's part of the game. e.g. a successful musician releasing a bad record, or a not more relevant musician that after years of experimentation reinvent himself and publish a great record. I don't have a clear outlook on this too, only questions about the future
Applejinx 4y ago
I don't know. I've put out an album largely driven by modular synth, meaning that I've got many percussion elements driven literally by a machine, defeating the need for me as a human to play drums in perfect time (which I'm not good at) But in doing that, I've spent years learning how the micro-timing of musical grooves work (some of it's very obvious, like how a heavy snare backbeat will lag slightly behind what the perfect time is, almost to the point of being a 'flam') As a result, I was able to make an album that conveyed certain kinds of groove not immediately accessible to novice musicians (or drummers)… but given the same information, any schmoe could push a button and have a preset in his DAW produce the same effect. I think to some extent if the person doesn't really understand the purpose or need for such an effect, their grasp of how to implement and craft it will be pretty loose. If you don't know why you're doing the effortless thing you're not going to guide it very well and your results will be kind of generic. Rather than thinking of years of skill, maybe call it years of focus, or years of purpose? To some extent, we collectively respond to creations with a profound sense of purpose. If that purpose comes out of AI it will have to be something from the AI, and not simply a blind reflection of us and our crudest drives.

ilkke 4y ago

Initially I had similar misgivings (I make visual art professionally and music as a hobby) but then I realised AI will not prevent me from creating my own stuff, it might just give me more options to use. A big part of my motivation is enjoying the artistic process itself, and I still get to choose my process. In terms of a productivity boost, it can give me the same boost as everyone else. Possibly even more as I have decades of experience. The biggest negative effect I anticipate is an endless stream of low effort content, bit TBH I think we were already there before the AI arrived. I feel this is more a matter of mental hygiene and culture and how we use technology, rather than the technology itself.

danielbln 4y ago
The silver lining is I guess that the low-effort content is of much higher technical quality than it was before, for better or for worse.
hollowturtle 4y ago
I can't talk about visual arts, but music market is actually appreciating a step back to a more organic/human sound. Although I must say it's actually a mixture of musicianship, recording techniques, better and fair use of electronics sounds and so on... So it actually might be like you said, that technology could empower artistic process. But, if we're already in an endless stream of low effort content(and I agree), how would you make yourself get noticed in an ocean of good enough crap once AI hits the public?
- danielbln 4y ago
  If it's "good enough", is it really crap?
  - hollowturtle 4y ago
    I consider "good enough" stuff to be decently suitable for the general public not for the excellence
- poisonarena 4y ago

vintermann 4y ago

I forget where I saw it, but there was a musician who made a good point: he said, I didn't do all the hard work of learning to play my instrument in order to impress you with my talent, I did it because I have all these songs in me that I desperately wanted to be able to express. I can understand that. In the visual domain, especially: how often haven't I thought about a story, my own or someone else's, and wished I could show people. I can also understand the dismay of some artists, who did all that hard work, and suddenly find that it's even harder to reach people with those songs, pictures and stories bubbling in them, because now so many others are able to express theirs too.

pjc50 4y ago
> I didn't do all the hard work of learning to play my instrument in order to impress you with my talent, I did it because I have all these songs in me that I desperately wanted to be able to express Markets for many kinds of art have already been driven to near zero, but I wonder if AI will drive them negative: if you want a human audience to give you their much-contended attention, you'll have to start paying them.
- vintermann 4y ago
  Vanity publishing is already a thing, it might become bigger. But I don't think the price as such will become negative, because paying people to listen to you sort of defeats the point. You want to believe that the things you have to say are worthwhile, after all.
  - kridsdale2 4y ago
    Vanity Publishing is basically the entire economic force behind Social Media, and even traditional media. Inventor: I made a thing! I want people to know about it so they will want it, and pay me for my cool thing. Public: We can't notice you over the million other things to pay attention to. Inventor: Hey Mr. Zuckerberg, here's $100. MAKE THEM NOTICE ME.

_trampeltier 4y ago

Maybe it also feels a bit like mid 90s, when the Internet and Linux came up. Before I had just QBasic and Dos/ Windows. But the with Linux, you got so many compilers and with the Internet (and with CDs on Magazines) you got sooo many programs. For almost everything you would like to do, somebody wrote already a program.

gpderetta 4y ago

People play chess even if they don't have a chance at winning against an AI. And in Art there is no winning anyway. People will continue to paint, like they did after the invention of the photograph and photoshop. Same for music, films, etc.

onemoresoop 4y ago
Yes, as at a hobby level this is true. The problem is that fewer will embark on journey if low effort and a click of a button would compete with their years of hard work. Yes, they can use AI too but that's not what they signed up for in arts, there was a benefit of being able to be in a completely different space, away from the computers and engineering. Anyway, the cat's out of the bag, we shall see how it goes and I hope I am wrong.