5 ms·

WA building council votes to require heat pumps in new homes and apartments

12 points by 8bitsrule 4y ago

rdtwo 4y ago
Why not just make it so expensive to build that nobody will bother. Wa state has so much energy is not really a problem at all
- codefreeordie 4y ago
  Have to protect the house prices somehow. Making new construction inherently inferior and also more expensive helps
  - rdtwo 4y ago
    I mean heat pumps are great but no need to require them. Gas is cheap too and when it gets expensive heat pumps will be even better
    - codefreeordie 4y ago
      Heat pumps are okay, though less reliable than gas furnaces, but they have also begun banning new homes from being plumbed for gas kitchen appliances, and electric cooktops are infinitely inferior -- no serious cooking happens on electric. That shiny new "chef's kitchen" isn't going to be desirable when you have to cook on coils.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - terribleperson 4y ago
        Gas stoves are great, but gas or heating coil aren't the only choices any more. Induction works really well for everything that's not a wok. edit: sorry, on all compatible cookware that's not a wok. That can be somewhat of a sticking point, but it's workable.
      - Moissanite 4y ago
        If I wanted a kitchen for showing off, I'd get a gas hob again. For simply preparing food, I'm very happy with having switched to induction. Regardless of anything else, cleaning is dramatically easier.
janef0421 4y ago
Mandating buildings can sustainably regulate internal temperatures is a good policy, but I think mandating heat pumps in new builds is a bad way of doing that. There are other strategies that may be more effective, both in terms of cost and emissions, such as the use of district heating or designing buildings for passive heat management. Building codes should allow these to be used as an alternative.
jotato 4y ago
Wa heat pump user chiming in. 6 months ago, we bought a house built in 95. Heat pump installed 5 years ago. My impression is "meh" This is the first month I'm using it for heat, but man we are cold. I have the thermostat set to 69. The upstairs is struggling to maintain 65 and the heat pump is running 14 hours/day (I track it in home assistant) Weather is L30-H42 this week I'm nervous to get my bill this month
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  What’s your insulation situation? Heating source is irrelevant if the envelope leaks like a sieve (Cheap, plentiful fossil gas has papered over poorly insulated homes historically). Recommend an energy audit, air sealing, and getting your attic up to at least R-38 (ideally you want to get to R-60) if not already there. Cost should be low four figures depending on what’s already up there (batts, blown fiberglass or cellulose, etc) for a retrofit, and there are typically some combination of utility, local, and state incentives. Get three quotes. https://www.energystar.gov/campaign/seal_insulate/identify_problems_you_want_fix/diy_checks_inspections/insulation_r_values https://www.energystar.gov/campaign/seal_insulate/identify_p... https://electrek.co/2022/08/19/us-tax-credits-rebates-climate-law/ https://electrek.co/2022/08/19/us-tax-credits-rebates-climat...
  - jotato 4y ago
    I assume it is fine. The attic was reblown when the heat pump was installed. Rooms don't feel drafty. I would like to do whole house air sealing. I plan on doing as much as I can myself. (Sealing can lights, outlet covers, etc..)
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      I recommend confirming. If your heat pump can’t keep up (“The upstairs is struggling to maintain 65 and the heat pump is running 14 hours/day (I track it in home assistant)”), either it’s undersized, your house is leaking conditioned air too quickly, or both. High level, having a heat pump in of itself isn’t the problem. High quality heat pumps (Mitsubishis for example) will happily extract heat from -30F outdoor air. (I have a 4 ton heat pump and it will get my 2600 sq ft 40 year old house to temp called for in about 15-60 minutes at extreme ambient outdoor temperatures).
mikewarot 4y ago
Unless there's a buried coolant loop, an air exchange heat pump isn't going to be anywhere near as quick to warm up a house as a furnace in northern climates. Air exchange heat pumps are a stepping stone, I think. If I could get a buried loop heat pump, I'd jump on it. I need to up our insulation a bit from the 1920s era first.
kylehotchkiss 4y ago
Would these homes otherwise have not had installed AC? The past few years have shown a few heatwaves in the area and heat pumps can at least provide some relief from summer heat. But yeah, heat pumps need help once it gets below 40. I grew up with one in Virginia where the “emergency heat” mode kicked in under 35 degrees or so. You could certainly smell and feel the warm air after that. I don’t remember it having a major impact on the power bill. Sure would now.

12 points by 8bitsrule 4y ago

Why not just make it so expensive to build that nobody will bother. Wa state has so much energy is not really a problem at all

codefreeordie 4y ago
Have to protect the house prices somehow. Making new construction inherently inferior and also more expensive helps
- rdtwo 4y ago
  I mean heat pumps are great but no need to require them. Gas is cheap too and when it gets expensive heat pumps will be even better
  - codefreeordie 4y ago
    Heat pumps are okay, though less reliable than gas furnaces, but they have also begun banning new homes from being plumbed for gas kitchen appliances, and electric cooktops are infinitely inferior -- no serious cooking happens on electric. That shiny new "chef's kitchen" isn't going to be desirable when you have to cook on coils.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - terribleperson 4y ago
      Gas stoves are great, but gas or heating coil aren't the only choices any more. Induction works really well for everything that's not a wok. edit: sorry, on all compatible cookware that's not a wok. That can be somewhat of a sticking point, but it's workable.
    - Moissanite 4y ago
      If I wanted a kitchen for showing off, I'd get a gas hob again. For simply preparing food, I'm very happy with having switched to induction. Regardless of anything else, cleaning is dramatically easier.

janef0421 4y ago

Mandating buildings can sustainably regulate internal temperatures is a good policy, but I think mandating heat pumps in new builds is a bad way of doing that. There are other strategies that may be more effective, both in terms of cost and emissions, such as the use of district heating or designing buildings for passive heat management. Building codes should allow these to be used as an alternative.

jotato 4y ago

Wa heat pump user chiming in. 6 months ago, we bought a house built in 95. Heat pump installed 5 years ago. My impression is "meh" This is the first month I'm using it for heat, but man we are cold. I have the thermostat set to 69. The upstairs is struggling to maintain 65 and the heat pump is running 14 hours/day (I track it in home assistant) Weather is L30-H42 this week I'm nervous to get my bill this month

toomuchtodo 4y ago
What’s your insulation situation? Heating source is irrelevant if the envelope leaks like a sieve (Cheap, plentiful fossil gas has papered over poorly insulated homes historically). Recommend an energy audit, air sealing, and getting your attic up to at least R-38 (ideally you want to get to R-60) if not already there. Cost should be low four figures depending on what’s already up there (batts, blown fiberglass or cellulose, etc) for a retrofit, and there are typically some combination of utility, local, and state incentives. Get three quotes. https://www.energystar.gov/campaign/seal_insulate/identify_problems_you_want_fix/diy_checks_inspections/insulation_r_values https://www.energystar.gov/campaign/seal_insulate/identify_p... https://electrek.co/2022/08/19/us-tax-credits-rebates-climate-law/ https://electrek.co/2022/08/19/us-tax-credits-rebates-climat...
- jotato 4y ago
  I assume it is fine. The attic was reblown when the heat pump was installed. Rooms don't feel drafty. I would like to do whole house air sealing. I plan on doing as much as I can myself. (Sealing can lights, outlet covers, etc..)
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    I recommend confirming. If your heat pump can’t keep up (“The upstairs is struggling to maintain 65 and the heat pump is running 14 hours/day (I track it in home assistant)”), either it’s undersized, your house is leaking conditioned air too quickly, or both. High level, having a heat pump in of itself isn’t the problem. High quality heat pumps (Mitsubishis for example) will happily extract heat from -30F outdoor air. (I have a 4 ton heat pump and it will get my 2600 sq ft 40 year old house to temp called for in about 15-60 minutes at extreme ambient outdoor temperatures).

mikewarot 4y ago

Unless there's a buried coolant loop, an air exchange heat pump isn't going to be anywhere near as quick to warm up a house as a furnace in northern climates. Air exchange heat pumps are a stepping stone, I think. If I could get a buried loop heat pump, I'd jump on it. I need to up our insulation a bit from the 1920s era first.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago

Would these homes otherwise have not had installed AC? The past few years have shown a few heatwaves in the area and heat pumps can at least provide some relief from summer heat. But yeah, heat pumps need help once it gets below 40. I grew up with one in Virginia where the “emergency heat” mode kicked in under 35 degrees or so. You could certainly smell and feel the warm air after that. I don’t remember it having a major impact on the power bill. Sure would now.