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"Warby Parker recognized this as a business opportunity. I’m surprised others haven’t jumped in as well with reasonably priced eyewear." This author is uninfor

"Warby Parker recognized this as a business opportunity. I’m surprised others haven’t jumped in as well with reasonably priced eyewear." This author is uninformed. Others have jumped in. And Warby Parker wasn't even the first. 15 years ago I would buy my single-vision prescription glasses from optical4less.com. The cost was $58 for 2 pairs, including worldwide shipping. Today I buy my glasses from Zenni. Last month, I paid $176.75 total for two pairs of glasses, each with single-vision photochromic lenses (and one pair with additional blue light blocking).

MichaelZuo 4y ago
I've heard a lot of the cheaper places cutback on the fancy multi-layer coatings, so that the quality of lens is not equivalent. I know a lot of them advertise identical quality but did you ever confirm that to be the case?
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  I've heard ... Heard from whom? I know a lot of them advertise identical quality but did you ever confirm that to be the case? You can choose what types of lenses you want. Zenni, for example, offers multiple lens options, some of which are from specific brands. https://www.zennioptical.com/glasses-lenses https://www.zennioptical.com/glasses-lenses When you buy glasses from a bricks and mortar optician, you're getting whatever bog-standard lenses they sell, unless they specifically mention they're high index, or have some specific feature/coating, or are from some specific manufacturer. Just like when you buy glasses online. There are definitely differences in lens quality, but the available range is just as wide in retail stores as it is online.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    The high end luxury brands such as Silhouette offer very advanced lens coatings and materials that aren't found in any of the discount stores online or brick-and-mortar, so there's definitely a difference there. It's only their full priced partner shops that carry them. They also claim to use custom technology that allows their 10+ layers of coatings to stick together much better and not flake off. The mid range to entry luxury brands, many owned by Luxottica, use broadly available lenses and coatings, or so the discount online stores claim. I've never been to a discount brick-and-mortar store selling the full range of Luxottica products, usually only a few styles here and there. So I can't comment there. What I'm asking is if the claims of discount stores, like that they have access to the same lenses as full priced Luxottica stores, are actually true. And whether they are honest with their shipped product. e.g. How would anyone know if they in fact got a X layer coated lens (where X could be from 3 to 8) from a discount shop? It seems trivial to ship a X-1 layer coated lens instead, with a very low possibility of getting caught.
    - _jal 4y ago
      > They also claim to use custom technology Can I get them with a protective undercoating and extended warranty?
    - vel0city 4y ago
      > How would anyone know if they in fact got a X layer coated lens (where X could be from 3 to 8) from a discount shop? How do you know you're getting it from the brick and mortar?
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        Presuming that they have multiple different lenses in stock you can compare them side by side visually? You can wet them, shine a flashlight, put them under the sun for transition lenses, etc... Not foolproof, but it would make it harder to substitute the lower end lenses, 3 coatings vs 2 coating would likely be noticeable. 8 coatings vs 7 coatings might not be. So for the mid range and above it probably doesn't make sense to discount shop at all. Your entirely trusting the brand reputation or shop reputation on whether they will deliver.
        vel0city 4y ago
        So we can't trust the store to give us the glasses we ordered, we need to test them. To get a control to test against, we're then going to...trust the store and have them provide the control? How do you know those glasses on the counter touting 8 layers actually has those 8 layers? It kind of sounds like all you can really do is see if the glasses have the features you requested. Do they transition? Does it seem like they transition as much as you were wanting? Do they seem like they don't have bad glare? Does it attenuate the glare as much as you were wanting? If not, then return them. This is entirely possible with online glasses retailers, they usually have decently generous return policies. People don't buy glasses because they have 8 layers instead of 7. They buy them because those layers give additional features and it's the features they want. If they can do the features you want in 7 layers instead of 8, does it really matter if it's only 7 layers?
- bagels 4y ago
  I can personally attest to this. Warby Parker lenses delaminated quickly. Measured in weeks.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    Yikes, I did have my suspicions about their 'no-scratch guarantee' and why it wasn't simply called a warranty. Not to mention their warranty on frames are also only 30 days...
newyankee 4y ago
You know, my family member bought a pair of cheap glasses for 2 $ in India. Granted it was probably not very powerful or may last long. But I am shocked at the definition of what is cheap. I am now skeptical if the glasses he bought actually work well enough for him.
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  $2 is extremely cheap. Sure, it's enough to pay for the materials (frames cost pennies, and cheap lenses maybe $1?). But someone still has to cut the the lenses to size, and fit them to the frame. This requires both equipment and skill. I don't think I've ever paid less than $15-$20 for prescription single-vision glasses. I've paid more even in the 'wholesale' optical market in Beijing. $2 is easily achievable for reading glasses, which are mass produced with lenses installed at the factory.
  - newyankee 4y ago
    So, probably someone is actually selling them at very low margins and/or it is subsidised by some entity.
    - paulmd 4y ago
      (not indian but this is my impression from what I've read) india has a very weird medical economy at times, geared to the costs necessary to deliver ultra-basic care to many people who are dirt-poor, utilizing generics (occasionally of questionable quality), the ultra-cheap cost of labor, etc. for example centchroman is an interesting case-study... the government basically paid to develop and take it through trials and it was generic from day-1, and then the generics manufacturers go to work and you have birth control that can be delivered to market for under a dollar a month (4 pills) in retail quantities, and the government distributes them free because it's cheaper than pregnancy/social services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ormeloxifene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ormeloxifene Not that at the high level, the care isn't great, but, a lot of india is super poor and underdeveloped and delivering core medicines cheaply is relatively effective to provide a super basic level of care, they have a focus on delivering super cheap generics that cover the basic use-cases. I'm sure the glasses are cheap shitty molded plastic or something, or at most a super basic molded glass lens, perhaps with some subsidies. I'm mentally imagining the "BCG" glasses from basic training, designed to be indestructible and unscratchable (aka the birth control glasses). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GI_glasses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GI_glasses But that is the 80% solution, make em cheap and polish em up with super cheap labor and with basic materials you probably can get that down to 2 bucks or within subsidy distance of that.
regular 4y ago
Warby Parker is a rip-off too.
ngokevin 4y ago
Yup, Zenni is like 20 years old. My partner worked there for 7 years on the eyewear supply chain and catalog. There are tons and tons of low-cost eyewear startups like payneglasses.com
- KatieLN 4y ago
  Agreed! I love Payne. I have over 100 pair because it's so inexpensive to buy online. Why not have multiple pair? You can get sunglasses or computer glasses, so you're not just stuck with one pair.

MichaelZuo 4y ago

I've heard a lot of the cheaper places cutback on the fancy multi-layer coatings, so that the quality of lens is not equivalent. I know a lot of them advertise identical quality but did you ever confirm that to be the case?

rahimnathwani 4y ago
I've heard ... Heard from whom? I know a lot of them advertise identical quality but did you ever confirm that to be the case? You can choose what types of lenses you want. Zenni, for example, offers multiple lens options, some of which are from specific brands. https://www.zennioptical.com/glasses-lenses https://www.zennioptical.com/glasses-lenses When you buy glasses from a bricks and mortar optician, you're getting whatever bog-standard lenses they sell, unless they specifically mention they're high index, or have some specific feature/coating, or are from some specific manufacturer. Just like when you buy glasses online. There are definitely differences in lens quality, but the available range is just as wide in retail stores as it is online.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  The high end luxury brands such as Silhouette offer very advanced lens coatings and materials that aren't found in any of the discount stores online or brick-and-mortar, so there's definitely a difference there. It's only their full priced partner shops that carry them. They also claim to use custom technology that allows their 10+ layers of coatings to stick together much better and not flake off. The mid range to entry luxury brands, many owned by Luxottica, use broadly available lenses and coatings, or so the discount online stores claim. I've never been to a discount brick-and-mortar store selling the full range of Luxottica products, usually only a few styles here and there. So I can't comment there. What I'm asking is if the claims of discount stores, like that they have access to the same lenses as full priced Luxottica stores, are actually true. And whether they are honest with their shipped product. e.g. How would anyone know if they in fact got a X layer coated lens (where X could be from 3 to 8) from a discount shop? It seems trivial to ship a X-1 layer coated lens instead, with a very low possibility of getting caught.
  - _jal 4y ago
    > They also claim to use custom technology Can I get them with a protective undercoating and extended warranty?
  - vel0city 4y ago
    > How would anyone know if they in fact got a X layer coated lens (where X could be from 3 to 8) from a discount shop? How do you know you're getting it from the brick and mortar?
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      Presuming that they have multiple different lenses in stock you can compare them side by side visually? You can wet them, shine a flashlight, put them under the sun for transition lenses, etc... Not foolproof, but it would make it harder to substitute the lower end lenses, 3 coatings vs 2 coating would likely be noticeable. 8 coatings vs 7 coatings might not be. So for the mid range and above it probably doesn't make sense to discount shop at all. Your entirely trusting the brand reputation or shop reputation on whether they will deliver.
      - vel0city 4y ago
        So we can't trust the store to give us the glasses we ordered, we need to test them. To get a control to test against, we're then going to...trust the store and have them provide the control? How do you know those glasses on the counter touting 8 layers actually has those 8 layers? It kind of sounds like all you can really do is see if the glasses have the features you requested. Do they transition? Does it seem like they transition as much as you were wanting? Do they seem like they don't have bad glare? Does it attenuate the glare as much as you were wanting? If not, then return them. This is entirely possible with online glasses retailers, they usually have decently generous return policies. People don't buy glasses because they have 8 layers instead of 7. They buy them because those layers give additional features and it's the features they want. If they can do the features you want in 7 layers instead of 8, does it really matter if it's only 7 layers?
bagels 4y ago
I can personally attest to this. Warby Parker lenses delaminated quickly. Measured in weeks.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  Yikes, I did have my suspicions about their 'no-scratch guarantee' and why it wasn't simply called a warranty. Not to mention their warranty on frames are also only 30 days...

newyankee 4y ago

You know, my family member bought a pair of cheap glasses for 2 $ in India. Granted it was probably not very powerful or may last long. But I am shocked at the definition of what is cheap. I am now skeptical if the glasses he bought actually work well enough for him.

rahimnathwani 4y ago
$2 is extremely cheap. Sure, it's enough to pay for the materials (frames cost pennies, and cheap lenses maybe $1?). But someone still has to cut the the lenses to size, and fit them to the frame. This requires both equipment and skill. I don't think I've ever paid less than $15-$20 for prescription single-vision glasses. I've paid more even in the 'wholesale' optical market in Beijing. $2 is easily achievable for reading glasses, which are mass produced with lenses installed at the factory.
- newyankee 4y ago
  So, probably someone is actually selling them at very low margins and/or it is subsidised by some entity.
  - paulmd 4y ago
    (not indian but this is my impression from what I've read) india has a very weird medical economy at times, geared to the costs necessary to deliver ultra-basic care to many people who are dirt-poor, utilizing generics (occasionally of questionable quality), the ultra-cheap cost of labor, etc. for example centchroman is an interesting case-study... the government basically paid to develop and take it through trials and it was generic from day-1, and then the generics manufacturers go to work and you have birth control that can be delivered to market for under a dollar a month (4 pills) in retail quantities, and the government distributes them free because it's cheaper than pregnancy/social services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ormeloxifene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ormeloxifene Not that at the high level, the care isn't great, but, a lot of india is super poor and underdeveloped and delivering core medicines cheaply is relatively effective to provide a super basic level of care, they have a focus on delivering super cheap generics that cover the basic use-cases. I'm sure the glasses are cheap shitty molded plastic or something, or at most a super basic molded glass lens, perhaps with some subsidies. I'm mentally imagining the "BCG" glasses from basic training, designed to be indestructible and unscratchable (aka the birth control glasses). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GI_glasses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GI_glasses But that is the 80% solution, make em cheap and polish em up with super cheap labor and with basic materials you probably can get that down to 2 bucks or within subsidy distance of that.

regular 4y ago

Warby Parker is a rip-off too.

ngokevin 4y ago

Yup, Zenni is like 20 years old. My partner worked there for 7 years on the eyewear supply chain and catalog. There are tons and tons of low-cost eyewear startups like payneglasses.com

KatieLN 4y ago
Agreed! I love Payne. I have over 100 pair because it's so inexpensive to buy online. Why not have multiple pair? You can get sunglasses or computer glasses, so you're not just stuck with one pair.