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I wouldn't say everybody thinks that way, but as an employee of what you referred to as a "boring business", I wouldn't want to hire any of these folks due to

I wouldn't say everybody thinks that way, but as an employee of what you referred to as a "boring business", I wouldn't want to hire any of these folks due to the fear that they have a mindset like you. At least not for any sort of senior role. We are profitable and have been for nearly 100 years precisely because we don't have the same perspective on "modernization" that many not boring SV companies have. We've been burned enough hiring folks who would end up refusing to give any effort the minute they found out they would be responsible for adding small features to systems that have been in production for 20 years (we inform them of this, but they generally think they will be able to impress us of their genius and get us to change our mind). Or they refuse to adhere to processes that they falsely believe to be outdated, or they suck at anything that isn't JavaScript/Web, or constantly try to expand requirements in the direction of vanity efforts. Additionally, everybody I've ever met from these places almost universally think they are hotshots that ought to immediately be given senior level salaries and responsibilities due to prior experience at a tech company. Sorry, but at real businesses that actually make money and have survived dire economic circumstances in the past, it doesn't work like that. I'm sure there are exceptions, and certainly there are plenty of actual hotshots at companies like Google. But they are generally hotshots at things that boring businesses don't need. We will never in a million years have any reason whatsoever to implement Kubernetes. Sorry. As of right now, we prefer to hire from other similarly boring businesses, or train up from entry level IT positions, or hire directly from local colleges.

dylan604 4y ago
It sounds to me like you and the GP are in somewhat of agreement. You're both saying that SV techs coming to some non-SV well established company might not be a good fit. You state a couple of reasons, and one of them supports the GP you're attempting to disagree with. You: Additionally, everybody I've ever met from these places almost universally think they are hotshots GP: As fair warning, these companies can be unfriendly to tech outsiders who charge in and think they know better
- Dingo24 4y ago
  Yes you are correct, I generally agree with some of the points made, where I disagree is that we would want help modernizing. Unless the modern solution provides some kind of cost reduction or feature improvement that I can sell to my boss (which is rare), then it simply isn't going to happen unless you are a designer or working completely on the front end. To be honest, that may be a good place to look for ex tech workers at my company, but I wouldn't know since I'm way deep in the backend. I don't think that Twitter employees are necessarily lazy or like to "rest and vest". I just think the kind of work they are expecting and culture difference is often an insurmountable obstacle. As for what others have asked, we generally max out on salary at around $200k for very senior contributor roles. For a fresh college grad then we are more than competitive for the area at around $70k-$80k. Like I said, we aren't a SV company, and we will not match a SV salary. But we are very competitive for the area, and its not an undesirable area either. If you do a COL adjustment it probably roughly evens out.
  - pevey 4y ago
    Just to be clear, I'm not trying to insult anyone at a boring business. I work in insurance, one of the most boring of the boring businesses. I happen to like it. And I don't mind saying that the industry needs to and wants to modernize. We are short on the talent to get it done, although that is slowly changing.
    - Dingo24 4y ago
      I think we understand eachother then. If there are insurance companies out there that need people to help implement self service, then I think that's an improvement that absolutely needs to be made. Of course, given that its insurance you will never be able to get rid of the mainframe in all likelihood, but that is also an area that could seriously be improved by anybody willing to try and dig them out of the hole they most likely outsourced themselves into (which is something I have seen a lot of at smaller banks, and I kind of suspect is what you were referring to when referencing borderline scam artist third parties). I totally misunderstood where you were coming from in your original post, and for that I apologize.
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dylan604 4y ago

It sounds to me like you and the GP are in somewhat of agreement. You're both saying that SV techs coming to some non-SV well established company might not be a good fit. You state a couple of reasons, and one of them supports the GP you're attempting to disagree with. You: Additionally, everybody I've ever met from these places almost universally think they are hotshots GP: As fair warning, these companies can be unfriendly to tech outsiders who charge in and think they know better

Dingo24 4y ago
Yes you are correct, I generally agree with some of the points made, where I disagree is that we would want help modernizing. Unless the modern solution provides some kind of cost reduction or feature improvement that I can sell to my boss (which is rare), then it simply isn't going to happen unless you are a designer or working completely on the front end. To be honest, that may be a good place to look for ex tech workers at my company, but I wouldn't know since I'm way deep in the backend. I don't think that Twitter employees are necessarily lazy or like to "rest and vest". I just think the kind of work they are expecting and culture difference is often an insurmountable obstacle. As for what others have asked, we generally max out on salary at around $200k for very senior contributor roles. For a fresh college grad then we are more than competitive for the area at around $70k-$80k. Like I said, we aren't a SV company, and we will not match a SV salary. But we are very competitive for the area, and its not an undesirable area either. If you do a COL adjustment it probably roughly evens out.
- pevey 4y ago
  Just to be clear, I'm not trying to insult anyone at a boring business. I work in insurance, one of the most boring of the boring businesses. I happen to like it. And I don't mind saying that the industry needs to and wants to modernize. We are short on the talent to get it done, although that is slowly changing.
  - Dingo24 4y ago
    I think we understand eachother then. If there are insurance companies out there that need people to help implement self service, then I think that's an improvement that absolutely needs to be made. Of course, given that its insurance you will never be able to get rid of the mainframe in all likelihood, but that is also an area that could seriously be improved by anybody willing to try and dig them out of the hole they most likely outsourced themselves into (which is something I have seen a lot of at smaller banks, and I kind of suspect is what you were referring to when referencing borderline scam artist third parties). I totally misunderstood where you were coming from in your original post, and for that I apologize.

deleted 4y ago

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