5 ms·

This is my issue with USB-C. Love the connector otherwise.

lostlogin 4y ago
You haven’t lived until you have bought a cable, had it work, then bought another with the same specs from the same vendor with the same packaging, and had it not work. IT support for a fleet of USB-C monitors is actually awful.
- Teknoman117 4y ago
  The solution to this is to only buy thunderbolt+pd cables. If not everyone wants to deal with the chunkiness, also maybe deploy some "base" thunderbolt cables where power delivery beyond the base 20W spec isn't required. This is what I do. Thunderbolt can't and won't function unless the cable meets the specifications, and thunderbolt cables have every conductor populated. This means that USB, DisplayPort, and USB-C Alt modes work over them as well. Long version: On any given USB-C cable you have either zero or four high-speed lanes at 5, 10, or 20 Gbps max signalling. Zero pairs is USB 2.0 only and is typically bundled with smartphones (grumble) or USB-C chargers. No USB 2.0 pair probably also exists somewhere but I've not encountered one yet. The "PD" wattage of a cable is whatever the current rating of the VBUS wire is times 20. All power delivery is is running the VBUS wire at 20V instead of 5V and the sideband protocol to agree on boosting the voltage and finding out what the max voltage and current of the source is. Thunderbolt requires the fastest of the differential lane configurations and if you get thunderbolt + PD, you know the max VBUS current of the cable.
  - edude03 4y ago
    Yes, but for people thinking of going down this path, the cables are $120 and pretty thick so it’s not without trade offs
    - Teknoman117 4y ago
      Not really. $120 for the Apple branded two meter cable for sure, but the third party ones run about $30/meter. I bought a handful of the one meter "Cable Matters Thunderbolt 4 40 Gbps" cables off Amazon for $30 each. I run one from a Dell XPS 15 laptop pulling up to 100W to a dock. They are quite chunky though. Beware anything longer than 2 meters that isn't an active cable though. The differential lanes will probably drop to 10 Gbps. Fine for USB 3, 3.1, and 3.2x2 but you'll lose half the USB4 bandwidth. --- I'm not sure if Thunderbolt allows for lane speed degradation. You see some "thunderbolt 3 20gbps" cables but I don't know if that's two pairs at 10 Gbps or one pair at 20 Gbps. Now you've got this whole USB4 mess - USB 4 and Thunderbolt 4 are the exact same protocol and physical layer, same controllers and everything. The difference is whether the device or host adheres to the performance specification and paid for certification.
      - edude03 4y ago
        My information is out of date then thanks for the heads up. Yes the last TB cable I bought was the apple one, but prior to that I purchased Belkin and Startech cables for the same price and couldn't find cheaper ones
      - causality0 4y ago
        Thirty dollars for a three foot cable still sounds like highway robbery to me.
        NavinF 4y ago
        Not really, this is just what happens when you use copper for 40gbps. Consider that 1 meter QSFP DACs are also $30. $/m gets a lot cheaper with longer fiber cables. They're more flexible too
        Teknoman117 4y ago
        > $/m gets a lot cheaper with longer fiber cables. They're more flexible too Pretty much. The cost of the optics amortizes at a certain length. You also don't have to worry about breaking something super expensive if you accidentally damage the fiber (for shorter runs). Consider some of the DAC cables for the new 800 GbE standard cost $1300 for a 2 meter cable.
- causality0 4y ago
  Don't forget devices that have a C port but only charge through a micro USB port, or my favorite, charge through the C port at 400mA and only charge at a full 2 amps through the charging dock pogo pins.
dheera 4y ago
I hate USB-C connectors. They are too fragile, supported by solder instead of the device housing, has a massive cantilever sticking out, is susceptible to vibrations, and is all-around bad design. I break about 1 USB-C cable a week, on average. I really wish they made them something like a miniature IEC C13/C14 power plug (the standard power plugs on most desktop computers), where a rubbery plug fits snugly into a rubbery housing. You can drop bricks on connectors, and the worst that can happen is they unplug themselves. Both connector and socket are virtually impossible to break.
- NavinF 4y ago
  LMAO I was with you until "I break about 1 USB-C cable a week, on average". This must be the hardware equivalent of a thread from yesterday: > the share dialog takes forever to load > I have a mid-range Pixel 4a running CalyxOS and it works without hiccups. Not sure why yours is so slow. >I am using an absolutely ancient phone (2016 iphone SE) that's perpetually in low power mode, so it's possible that this isn't a big problem for other iOS users. >I love HN threads where the complainer is knowingly using an old device on power mode, while complaining about performance… all while the responder is using a custom de-googled niche ROM and claiming somehow it works flawlessly. I always wonder how non-HNers use such software, if even the dedicated people are struggling."
  - adolph 4y ago
    > 2016 iphone SE) that's perpetually in low power mode What is up with that? Mine's constantly in low power mode too. Such a great phone, except for the battery binge that started last Spring.
    - bschwindHN 4y ago
      I have one as well, got the battery replaced in Spring 2022. It's been great since then, so you probably just need a battery swap.
      - adolph 4y ago

You haven’t lived until you have bought a cable, had it work, then bought another with the same specs from the same vendor with the same packaging, and had it not work. IT support for a fleet of USB-C monitors is actually awful.

Teknoman117 4y ago
The solution to this is to only buy thunderbolt+pd cables. If not everyone wants to deal with the chunkiness, also maybe deploy some "base" thunderbolt cables where power delivery beyond the base 20W spec isn't required. This is what I do. Thunderbolt can't and won't function unless the cable meets the specifications, and thunderbolt cables have every conductor populated. This means that USB, DisplayPort, and USB-C Alt modes work over them as well. Long version: On any given USB-C cable you have either zero or four high-speed lanes at 5, 10, or 20 Gbps max signalling. Zero pairs is USB 2.0 only and is typically bundled with smartphones (grumble) or USB-C chargers. No USB 2.0 pair probably also exists somewhere but I've not encountered one yet. The "PD" wattage of a cable is whatever the current rating of the VBUS wire is times 20. All power delivery is is running the VBUS wire at 20V instead of 5V and the sideband protocol to agree on boosting the voltage and finding out what the max voltage and current of the source is. Thunderbolt requires the fastest of the differential lane configurations and if you get thunderbolt + PD, you know the max VBUS current of the cable.
- edude03 4y ago
  Yes, but for people thinking of going down this path, the cables are $120 and pretty thick so it’s not without trade offs
  - Teknoman117 4y ago
    Not really. $120 for the Apple branded two meter cable for sure, but the third party ones run about $30/meter. I bought a handful of the one meter "Cable Matters Thunderbolt 4 40 Gbps" cables off Amazon for $30 each. I run one from a Dell XPS 15 laptop pulling up to 100W to a dock. They are quite chunky though. Beware anything longer than 2 meters that isn't an active cable though. The differential lanes will probably drop to 10 Gbps. Fine for USB 3, 3.1, and 3.2x2 but you'll lose half the USB4 bandwidth. --- I'm not sure if Thunderbolt allows for lane speed degradation. You see some "thunderbolt 3 20gbps" cables but I don't know if that's two pairs at 10 Gbps or one pair at 20 Gbps. Now you've got this whole USB4 mess - USB 4 and Thunderbolt 4 are the exact same protocol and physical layer, same controllers and everything. The difference is whether the device or host adheres to the performance specification and paid for certification.
    - edude03 4y ago
      My information is out of date then thanks for the heads up. Yes the last TB cable I bought was the apple one, but prior to that I purchased Belkin and Startech cables for the same price and couldn't find cheaper ones
    - causality0 4y ago
      Thirty dollars for a three foot cable still sounds like highway robbery to me.
      - NavinF 4y ago
        Not really, this is just what happens when you use copper for 40gbps. Consider that 1 meter QSFP DACs are also $30. $/m gets a lot cheaper with longer fiber cables. They're more flexible too
        Teknoman117 4y ago
        > $/m gets a lot cheaper with longer fiber cables. They're more flexible too Pretty much. The cost of the optics amortizes at a certain length. You also don't have to worry about breaking something super expensive if you accidentally damage the fiber (for shorter runs). Consider some of the DAC cables for the new 800 GbE standard cost $1300 for a 2 meter cable.
causality0 4y ago
Don't forget devices that have a C port but only charge through a micro USB port, or my favorite, charge through the C port at 400mA and only charge at a full 2 amps through the charging dock pogo pins.

dheera 4y ago

I hate USB-C connectors. They are too fragile, supported by solder instead of the device housing, has a massive cantilever sticking out, is susceptible to vibrations, and is all-around bad design. I break about 1 USB-C cable a week, on average. I really wish they made them something like a miniature IEC C13/C14 power plug (the standard power plugs on most desktop computers), where a rubbery plug fits snugly into a rubbery housing. You can drop bricks on connectors, and the worst that can happen is they unplug themselves. Both connector and socket are virtually impossible to break.

NavinF 4y ago
LMAO I was with you until "I break about 1 USB-C cable a week, on average". This must be the hardware equivalent of a thread from yesterday: > the share dialog takes forever to load > I have a mid-range Pixel 4a running CalyxOS and it works without hiccups. Not sure why yours is so slow. >I am using an absolutely ancient phone (2016 iphone SE) that's perpetually in low power mode, so it's possible that this isn't a big problem for other iOS users. >I love HN threads where the complainer is knowingly using an old device on power mode, while complaining about performance… all while the responder is using a custom de-googled niche ROM and claiming somehow it works flawlessly. I always wonder how non-HNers use such software, if even the dedicated people are struggling."
- adolph 4y ago
  > 2016 iphone SE) that's perpetually in low power mode What is up with that? Mine's constantly in low power mode too. Such a great phone, except for the battery binge that started last Spring.
  - bschwindHN 4y ago
    I have one as well, got the battery replaced in Spring 2022. It's been great since then, so you probably just need a battery swap.
    - adolph 4y ago