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Ask HN: Open Source Hardware Kits for Children

10 points by X4 15y ago

Hi HN! I'm looking out for a modular electronics kit for my 10year old brother that supports Open Source Hardware - http://freedomdefined.org/OSHW I would love to see him building his own stuff 'n toys using non-proprietary electronic parts. I don't know a kit that can grow with him just by buying new electronic parts and learning from more sophisticated handbooks. I'll order him a RasperryPi [when available] and I'm looking for something that builds on top of a RasperryPi board. The ideal scenario is that he can use the modular electronics kit to build something. Connect with his RasperryPi board through USB and write a program in C to do something with the sensor data. He learns fast from his K&R C Programming book and was fascinated when I told him that he now can program many devices in C. I think it would be a nice gift for Christmas to buy him a modular open source hardware kit instead of those toy-kits from Walmart and co. Best Wishes :) me

jcr 15y ago
Though it probably won't comply with your licensing demands, you might want to look at: http://www.open-electronics.org/ http://www.open-electronics.org/ Arduino is always fun, and there are lots of people hacking on it in different ways, but again, it often won't comply with your licensing demands. If you want your brother to learn something really useful, get him a FPGA development board from Xilinx or Altera. After he learns the default (proprietary) tool chains, point him at the OpenCores project which typically enforces licensing demands similar to your own (LGPL). http://opencores.org/ http://opencores.org/ Though USB connectivity is fun, learning I2C, SPI, JTAG and similar is even more fun. A gift like an Aardvark or Beagle kit might be too expensive for a present, but the pay-off in what can be learned is well worth it. http://www.totalphase.com/protocols/i2c/ http://www.totalphase.com/protocols/i2c/ To me, freedomdefined.org/OSHW is very offensive. I see little point or benefit in arguing about licenses publicly, so if you want to know why it is offensive, contact me privately via email.
- X4 15y ago
  Thank you for your valuable response Mr. Roberts! The RasperryPi developers argued that it's more powerful and extensible than an Arduino or Beagleboard. I can't tell if it's the case or not, b/c I've not played with those yet. But Wikipedia also confirms that it's more powerful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeagleBoard#Similar_products http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeagleBoard#Similar_products
  - jcr 15y ago
    It seems I may not have be as clear as I should have; the "Beagle" I mentioned is an I2C/SPI protocol analyzer (about $550 for the full kit), rather than the "BeagleBoard" you mentioned. http://www.totalphase.com/products/i2c_devkit/ http://www.totalphase.com/products/i2c_devkit/ Working with devices through I2C/SPI (and JTAG) is both fun and challenging to learn. It may or may not be "too much" for a 10 year old, but of course, that depends on the specific 10 year old. Most of the small/hobby boards come with I2C/SPI/JTAG support, so the skills you learn are very reusable. An inexpensive or used oscilloscope is another avenue you might want to look at as a gift since it makes learning and debugging electronics a whole lot easier. If you're in the SF Bay Area and would like to borrow a BeagleBoard, PandaBoard or Arduino to see if it fits your needs (or for just random fun hacking), let me know and I'll lend you one. If your ten year old brother is learning from K&R already, you need to worry about keeping him challenged or he might lose interest --this was the main concern I had behind my suggestions. You may or may not be right about the RasberryPi being a better fit since it is designed to be an educational board, but if they dumb things down to where "most kids" can work on it, I kinda doubt your brother will remain interested for very long. ;) As far as I can tell from spec sheets, the RasberryPi is running the Broadcom BCM2835 containing an ARM11 core running at 700MHz. Since a snowball in hell has better chances of survival than you or anyone has getting "design files" out of Broadcom, the main ASIC on the RasberryPi does not comply with the demands in freedomdefined.org/OSHW. Additionally, the ARM core used in it is proprietary, so even if you had the design files for the chip and 50+ Million to spend spinning your own ASIC, there's no way you could create your own version without getting sued into oblivion. --And this is from someone that met with hardware vendors to convince them to release just the required documentation needed by open source developers to write/maintain drivers. RasberryPi does look interesting, and it is very inexpensive by comparison. I'll probably get one to tinker with it after it gets stable. New designs always have a higher degree of risk, so unless you want to (and can) compensate for design flaws, it's best to stay away from the bleeding edge. For this reason, I would not suggest a PandaBoard because it has a wee bit too much personality (read "bugs") in it's design, and you need to be able to handle them. The Arduino boards from sparcfun.com are solid, and there are lots of interesting and inexpensive add-on kits available for it. There is a lot of fun Arduino hacking happening, both on the web and off (in Arduino user groups), so the "supporting resources" for Arduino are superior to RasberryPi. I agree that Arduino is more limited in hardware specs/features than RasberryPi, but that is only part of the decision, and "community support" may be a more important part. http://www.sparkfun.com/ http://www.sparkfun.com/
pasbesoin 15y ago
Lead free, and/or take a few minutes to explain proper care around components containing lead. Not to be excessively paranoid, but I recall settings where such was not explained and as a result people did somewhat stupid things.

10 points by X4 15y ago

jcr 15y ago

Though it probably won't comply with your licensing demands, you might want to look at: http://www.open-electronics.org/ http://www.open-electronics.org/ Arduino is always fun, and there are lots of people hacking on it in different ways, but again, it often won't comply with your licensing demands. If you want your brother to learn something really useful, get him a FPGA development board from Xilinx or Altera. After he learns the default (proprietary) tool chains, point him at the OpenCores project which typically enforces licensing demands similar to your own (LGPL). http://opencores.org/ http://opencores.org/ Though USB connectivity is fun, learning I2C, SPI, JTAG and similar is even more fun. A gift like an Aardvark or Beagle kit might be too expensive for a present, but the pay-off in what can be learned is well worth it. http://www.totalphase.com/protocols/i2c/ http://www.totalphase.com/protocols/i2c/ To me, freedomdefined.org/OSHW is very offensive. I see little point or benefit in arguing about licenses publicly, so if you want to know why it is offensive, contact me privately via email.

X4 15y ago
Thank you for your valuable response Mr. Roberts! The RasperryPi developers argued that it's more powerful and extensible than an Arduino or Beagleboard. I can't tell if it's the case or not, b/c I've not played with those yet. But Wikipedia also confirms that it's more powerful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeagleBoard#Similar_products http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeagleBoard#Similar_products
- jcr 15y ago
  It seems I may not have be as clear as I should have; the "Beagle" I mentioned is an I2C/SPI protocol analyzer (about $550 for the full kit), rather than the "BeagleBoard" you mentioned. http://www.totalphase.com/products/i2c_devkit/ http://www.totalphase.com/products/i2c_devkit/ Working with devices through I2C/SPI (and JTAG) is both fun and challenging to learn. It may or may not be "too much" for a 10 year old, but of course, that depends on the specific 10 year old. Most of the small/hobby boards come with I2C/SPI/JTAG support, so the skills you learn are very reusable. An inexpensive or used oscilloscope is another avenue you might want to look at as a gift since it makes learning and debugging electronics a whole lot easier. If you're in the SF Bay Area and would like to borrow a BeagleBoard, PandaBoard or Arduino to see if it fits your needs (or for just random fun hacking), let me know and I'll lend you one. If your ten year old brother is learning from K&R already, you need to worry about keeping him challenged or he might lose interest --this was the main concern I had behind my suggestions. You may or may not be right about the RasberryPi being a better fit since it is designed to be an educational board, but if they dumb things down to where "most kids" can work on it, I kinda doubt your brother will remain interested for very long. ;) As far as I can tell from spec sheets, the RasberryPi is running the Broadcom BCM2835 containing an ARM11 core running at 700MHz. Since a snowball in hell has better chances of survival than you or anyone has getting "design files" out of Broadcom, the main ASIC on the RasberryPi does not comply with the demands in freedomdefined.org/OSHW. Additionally, the ARM core used in it is proprietary, so even if you had the design files for the chip and 50+ Million to spend spinning your own ASIC, there's no way you could create your own version without getting sued into oblivion. --And this is from someone that met with hardware vendors to convince them to release just the required documentation needed by open source developers to write/maintain drivers. RasberryPi does look interesting, and it is very inexpensive by comparison. I'll probably get one to tinker with it after it gets stable. New designs always have a higher degree of risk, so unless you want to (and can) compensate for design flaws, it's best to stay away from the bleeding edge. For this reason, I would not suggest a PandaBoard because it has a wee bit too much personality (read "bugs") in it's design, and you need to be able to handle them. The Arduino boards from sparcfun.com are solid, and there are lots of interesting and inexpensive add-on kits available for it. There is a lot of fun Arduino hacking happening, both on the web and off (in Arduino user groups), so the "supporting resources" for Arduino are superior to RasberryPi. I agree that Arduino is more limited in hardware specs/features than RasberryPi, but that is only part of the decision, and "community support" may be a more important part. http://www.sparkfun.com/ http://www.sparkfun.com/

pasbesoin 15y ago

Lead free, and/or take a few minutes to explain proper care around components containing lead. Not to be excessively paranoid, but I recall settings where such was not explained and as a result people did somewhat stupid things.