4 ms·

The real world of compulsive hoarders (2013)

29 points by yamrzou 4y ago

reshie 4y ago
there was a mentality mostly from the depression era where it kind of got to hording in the when there was excess that mentality never changed much for that generation. it is all measured its the extremes that are bad and really applies to anything.
yamrzou 4y ago
https://archive.ph/dm9rV https://archive.ph/dm9rV
gkrimer 4y ago
Not sure this is HN-worthy but the following was my experience dealing with a hoarder on the other side of me in Mountain View: https://m.yelp.com/user_details_reviews_self?userid=1jKEOS2tmLbv2VqJoWzxQA https://m.yelp.com/user_details_reviews_self?userid=1jKEOS2t... 50+ rats!!! I have pictures.
itronitron 4y ago
Like any good article about a psychological disorder, it will leave every reader with the sense that they also may suffer from the condition.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  It does, mostly because people don’t have context to judge the severity of their own tendencies. Psychology is kind of a mess. A great many disorders are on a spectrum from normal variation to truly severe, disabling symptoms. We also don’t know enough to definitively identify the causes of a person’s disorder. For example, many cases of depression are caused by circumstances. In those cases, depression may be an expected result. Other cases are inherited genetic defects, which no amount of circumstance can fix. Edit: definitely -> definitively
  - Eleison23 4y ago
    We would know enough, except people tend to reject the philosophers and prophets who impart ancient knowledge in ways too mysterious to accept as truth.
    - kayodelycaon 4y ago
      That’s an interesting perspective. I had a few classes in philosophy but I’m not entirely sure what realm of ancient knowledge would be applicable here. Would you happen to have a Wikipedia link or two to some of the stuff you’re thinking of?
      - Eleison23 4y ago
        Ecclesiastes 1:16-18
  - itronitron 4y ago
    There are two aspects to this that I find interesting, one is that disorders are described in terms of traits when they are predominantly a matter of degree, and the other is that the modern world enables these disorders to amplify to such a degree by blocking out nature, or the natural order of things, and also by producing so many durable items.
    - kayodelycaon 4y ago
      They are actually defined as a matter of degree. The traits are guidelines. If x, y, and z are outside normal range, the following could be descriptive of a known category of disorder, which guides treatments. Some disorders could simply be the result of living in a modern society. Things like clinical depression, borderline personality disorder, bipolar, schizophrenia, and some PTSD are severe enough to exclude that as a primary cause.
      - tonyarkles 4y ago
        > Some disorders could simply be the result of living in a modern society And to make the snake eat its own tail, I’d argue that some of the traits that define some disorders aren’t traits that are inherently bad, but more mismatches with the expectations of “modern society”. ADHD being a prime example: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html Compare that to, say, BPD: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3494330/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3494330/ The ADHD criteria mostly describe ways that the patient either doesn’t fit in to societal expectations (sit quietly for long periods of time, difficulty engaging in tasks that require prolonged mental effort) or the ways they annoy others (fidgeting, high energy that exhausts other people) vs. intrinsically self-harmful behaviour (unstable self-image, suicidal behaviour, feelings of emptiness). The thing that intrigued me the most about it is that these are all contextual. Someone with undiagnosed ADHD two hundred years ago world have probably gotten by just fine. They might be known as a bit “different” in their communities, but could have readily found their way. In 2022, that gets much more challenging, especially since we’ve dramatically systematized things. 200 years ago, maybe you would become an apprentice potter or blacksmith; today, if your ADHD is so bad that you can’t finish high school (not because you’re dumb, but because sitting in a quiet class room followed by going home to study makes your brain bleed), you’re going to have a really hard time finding anything but the crappiest minimum wage job for the rest of your life. Depression, BPD, bipolar, etc? Those all have the same unfortunate outcomes 200 years ago or now.
treeman79 4y ago
Had a friend who’s parents are hoarders. My wife’s parents are hoarders. Both “clean” in such that nothing rotting. Wife and my daughters all have strong tendencies toward it. After years of struggle I got immediate family hooked on KonMari method for what to keep. It’s been amazing for them as now that everything they own has a specific place, they don’t want to screw it by having something without an assigned spot. My budget has improved dramatically from reduced spending. Wife’s parents bought a much larger house and a huge workshop space bigger then the house. Initially everything fit. Bet my wife by end of a year it would all be filled floor to ceiling. I won the bet :(
yamrzou 4y ago
The article talks about hoarding objects, newspapers and magazines. The digital equivalent would be bookmarks, browser tabs and data hoarding (https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/ https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/).
- kerblang 4y ago
  I have dealt with lots of programmer hoarding, the "we might decide to bring this back someday" sort of thing. Yes I know source control would handle that in theory, but it's just not the same sense of security as having it right there. I finally made an extra repo just for hoarding, where I could toss old crap and assure people that it's safe and sound.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  A wonderful change, too. I come from a family with many compulsive hoarders, and I'd probably be (or am) one too, but all of my 2xNASes worth of hoarding could fit in a rolling carry-on suitcase.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  This is digital hoarding [1] [1] https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/techno-clutter-farnell.html https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/techno-clutter-farnell...
- Eleison23 4y ago
  What about browser extensions? I had a neighbor who gave his computer to another neighbor. I found dozens of browser tabs that had inevitably introduced malware. His addiction was innocent enough: he wanted online deals, coupon codes, and discounts. The browser extensions promised the world and delivered spyware, adware, malware.
- m463 4y ago
  I suspect this may be true. I know someone who hoards many things at work... and also has 99+ tabs open at once (don't know the value of '+')
- Nomentatus 4y ago

29 points by yamrzou 4y ago

there was a mentality mostly from the depression era where it kind of got to hording in the when there was excess that mentality never changed much for that generation. it is all measured its the extremes that are bad and really applies to anything.

yamrzou 4y ago

https://archive.ph/dm9rV https://archive.ph/dm9rV

gkrimer 4y ago

Not sure this is HN-worthy but the following was my experience dealing with a hoarder on the other side of me in Mountain View: https://m.yelp.com/user_details_reviews_self?userid=1jKEOS2tmLbv2VqJoWzxQA https://m.yelp.com/user_details_reviews_self?userid=1jKEOS2t... 50+ rats!!! I have pictures.

itronitron 4y ago

Like any good article about a psychological disorder, it will leave every reader with the sense that they also may suffer from the condition.

kayodelycaon 4y ago
It does, mostly because people don’t have context to judge the severity of their own tendencies. Psychology is kind of a mess. A great many disorders are on a spectrum from normal variation to truly severe, disabling symptoms. We also don’t know enough to definitively identify the causes of a person’s disorder. For example, many cases of depression are caused by circumstances. In those cases, depression may be an expected result. Other cases are inherited genetic defects, which no amount of circumstance can fix. Edit: definitely -> definitively
- Eleison23 4y ago
  We would know enough, except people tend to reject the philosophers and prophets who impart ancient knowledge in ways too mysterious to accept as truth.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    That’s an interesting perspective. I had a few classes in philosophy but I’m not entirely sure what realm of ancient knowledge would be applicable here. Would you happen to have a Wikipedia link or two to some of the stuff you’re thinking of?
    - Eleison23 4y ago
      Ecclesiastes 1:16-18
- itronitron 4y ago
  There are two aspects to this that I find interesting, one is that disorders are described in terms of traits when they are predominantly a matter of degree, and the other is that the modern world enables these disorders to amplify to such a degree by blocking out nature, or the natural order of things, and also by producing so many durable items.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    They are actually defined as a matter of degree. The traits are guidelines. If x, y, and z are outside normal range, the following could be descriptive of a known category of disorder, which guides treatments. Some disorders could simply be the result of living in a modern society. Things like clinical depression, borderline personality disorder, bipolar, schizophrenia, and some PTSD are severe enough to exclude that as a primary cause.
    - tonyarkles 4y ago
      > Some disorders could simply be the result of living in a modern society And to make the snake eat its own tail, I’d argue that some of the traits that define some disorders aren’t traits that are inherently bad, but more mismatches with the expectations of “modern society”. ADHD being a prime example: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html Compare that to, say, BPD: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3494330/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3494330/ The ADHD criteria mostly describe ways that the patient either doesn’t fit in to societal expectations (sit quietly for long periods of time, difficulty engaging in tasks that require prolonged mental effort) or the ways they annoy others (fidgeting, high energy that exhausts other people) vs. intrinsically self-harmful behaviour (unstable self-image, suicidal behaviour, feelings of emptiness). The thing that intrigued me the most about it is that these are all contextual. Someone with undiagnosed ADHD two hundred years ago world have probably gotten by just fine. They might be known as a bit “different” in their communities, but could have readily found their way. In 2022, that gets much more challenging, especially since we’ve dramatically systematized things. 200 years ago, maybe you would become an apprentice potter or blacksmith; today, if your ADHD is so bad that you can’t finish high school (not because you’re dumb, but because sitting in a quiet class room followed by going home to study makes your brain bleed), you’re going to have a really hard time finding anything but the crappiest minimum wage job for the rest of your life. Depression, BPD, bipolar, etc? Those all have the same unfortunate outcomes 200 years ago or now.

treeman79 4y ago

Had a friend who’s parents are hoarders. My wife’s parents are hoarders. Both “clean” in such that nothing rotting. Wife and my daughters all have strong tendencies toward it. After years of struggle I got immediate family hooked on KonMari method for what to keep. It’s been amazing for them as now that everything they own has a specific place, they don’t want to screw it by having something without an assigned spot. My budget has improved dramatically from reduced spending. Wife’s parents bought a much larger house and a huge workshop space bigger then the house. Initially everything fit. Bet my wife by end of a year it would all be filled floor to ceiling. I won the bet :(

yamrzou 4y ago

The article talks about hoarding objects, newspapers and magazines. The digital equivalent would be bookmarks, browser tabs and data hoarding (https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/ https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/).

kerblang 4y ago
I have dealt with lots of programmer hoarding, the "we might decide to bring this back someday" sort of thing. Yes I know source control would handle that in theory, but it's just not the same sense of security as having it right there. I finally made an extra repo just for hoarding, where I could toss old crap and assure people that it's safe and sound.
pessimizer 4y ago
A wonderful change, too. I come from a family with many compulsive hoarders, and I'd probably be (or am) one too, but all of my 2xNASes worth of hoarding could fit in a rolling carry-on suitcase.
nonrandomstring 4y ago
This is digital hoarding [1] [1] https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/techno-clutter-farnell.html https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/techno-clutter-farnell...
Eleison23 4y ago
What about browser extensions? I had a neighbor who gave his computer to another neighbor. I found dozens of browser tabs that had inevitably introduced malware. His addiction was innocent enough: he wanted online deals, coupon codes, and discounts. The browser extensions promised the world and delivered spyware, adware, malware.
m463 4y ago
I suspect this may be true. I know someone who hoards many things at work... and also has 99+ tabs open at once (don't know the value of '+')
Nomentatus 4y ago