5 ms·

Seems reasonable enough

filoleg 4y ago
I was about to say, this is about as unsurprising and reasonable as Google Search listening to what you type into the search bar and which links on the search results page you click.
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  Many sites, probably including Google Search, also monitor where you move your mouse cursor, even if you’re not clicking. A lot less reasonable and more surprising.
  - filoleg 4y ago
    Maybe on Windows, idk, but I am not sure how Google Search could do it on either iOS or macOS. On iOS, there is no mouse cursor, so there is nothing to track in the first place. On macOS, you have to give permissions on a per-app and per-domain basis. For example, if I want to let Google Maps use my current location, first I will get a prompt to give that permission to the browser I am using in the OS settings, and then I have to give that permission again from within the browser specifically for Google Maps. Also, the web browser shows which specific permissions a page I am on has, and I can revoke them at any given time. Same thing for tracking mouse cursor movements, except it is governed by the macOS accessibility permissions iirc, rather than location permissions, and I don't remember Google Search ever requesting that. Just checked, and the only app that has those permissions on my machine is Discord, and it requested those only when I attempted screensharing. Maybe I am mistaken, and there is some trick around needing permissions to track mouse cursor movements in a browser on macOS (especially given how complex in-browser JS execution behaviors have gotten over time). In which case, someone please correct me. I agree though, tracking mouse cursor movements is definitely a bit more surprising and unexpected than tracking what you type in the website's search bar. Which I would be way more surprised by it not being tracked. It's like expecting Amazon or Steam or Twitter to not track what queries you search for in their search bars (which all of them definitely do, as evident by you being able to look at your search history from within the website).
    - Someone 4y ago
      AFAIK, all web pages can track mouse position, as long as the mouse is inside the page’s window, and they don’t need special permission to do so. See https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Element/mousemove_event https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Element/mou... or https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7790725/javascript-track-mouse-position https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7790725/javascript-track...
      - filoleg 4y ago
        Ah, thanks for the links. I guess it makes sense, given that mouse-tracking within a specific web page is pretty much impossible to ban on technical level, since you can just place a ton of invisible pixels covering the entire page, and track the mouse hover events over them. And it would be impossible to block by browser too, unless the browser prohibits mouse hover interactions with components present on the page entirely.
    - tinus_hn 4y ago
      Obviously Amazon knows what you search for on Amazon. But they probably also track what you type into the search field, even if you then delete it and never actually perform the search and even if you turn off the suggestions. Just like when you chat with a company through one of those web chat apps, they see everything you type, even if you delete it before you press enter to send it. That is tracking on the modern web.
  - phendrenad2 4y ago
    It's still entirely reasonable. People often hover over things and get confused about animations, and so seeing where the cursor goes is essential to notice this.
  - worthless-trash 4y ago
    Ah, this may explain why i get asked "if I'm a robot so frequently", I very rarely use moues for navigation and mainly use keynav.

I was about to say, this is about as unsurprising and reasonable as Google Search listening to what you type into the search bar and which links on the search results page you click.

tinus_hn 4y ago
Many sites, probably including Google Search, also monitor where you move your mouse cursor, even if you’re not clicking. A lot less reasonable and more surprising.
- filoleg 4y ago
  Maybe on Windows, idk, but I am not sure how Google Search could do it on either iOS or macOS. On iOS, there is no mouse cursor, so there is nothing to track in the first place. On macOS, you have to give permissions on a per-app and per-domain basis. For example, if I want to let Google Maps use my current location, first I will get a prompt to give that permission to the browser I am using in the OS settings, and then I have to give that permission again from within the browser specifically for Google Maps. Also, the web browser shows which specific permissions a page I am on has, and I can revoke them at any given time. Same thing for tracking mouse cursor movements, except it is governed by the macOS accessibility permissions iirc, rather than location permissions, and I don't remember Google Search ever requesting that. Just checked, and the only app that has those permissions on my machine is Discord, and it requested those only when I attempted screensharing. Maybe I am mistaken, and there is some trick around needing permissions to track mouse cursor movements in a browser on macOS (especially given how complex in-browser JS execution behaviors have gotten over time). In which case, someone please correct me. I agree though, tracking mouse cursor movements is definitely a bit more surprising and unexpected than tracking what you type in the website's search bar. Which I would be way more surprised by it not being tracked. It's like expecting Amazon or Steam or Twitter to not track what queries you search for in their search bars (which all of them definitely do, as evident by you being able to look at your search history from within the website).
  - Someone 4y ago
    AFAIK, all web pages can track mouse position, as long as the mouse is inside the page’s window, and they don’t need special permission to do so. See https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Element/mousemove_event https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Element/mou... or https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7790725/javascript-track-mouse-position https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7790725/javascript-track...
    - filoleg 4y ago
      Ah, thanks for the links. I guess it makes sense, given that mouse-tracking within a specific web page is pretty much impossible to ban on technical level, since you can just place a ton of invisible pixels covering the entire page, and track the mouse hover events over them. And it would be impossible to block by browser too, unless the browser prohibits mouse hover interactions with components present on the page entirely.
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    Obviously Amazon knows what you search for on Amazon. But they probably also track what you type into the search field, even if you then delete it and never actually perform the search and even if you turn off the suggestions. Just like when you chat with a company through one of those web chat apps, they see everything you type, even if you delete it before you press enter to send it. That is tracking on the modern web.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  It's still entirely reasonable. People often hover over things and get confused about animations, and so seeing where the cursor goes is essential to notice this.
- worthless-trash 4y ago
  Ah, this may explain why i get asked "if I'm a robot so frequently", I very rarely use moues for navigation and mainly use keynav.