5 ms·

Live coding music is nice, but the interface is awful. Having someone type at a laptop is so boring to watch, it totally kills the mood. I'd rather have them

by d--b 4y ago

Live coding music is nice, but the interface is awful. Having someone type at a laptop is so boring to watch, it totally kills the mood. I'd rather have them manipulate lego like bricks on a physical screen or even write on a chalkboard... Something has to be better than this

karmakaze 4y ago
If you continue the live coding (thought) experiment, you would naturally code a better interface. At that point you would be reinventing something like Ableton Live, but completely different. Similar to how using Lisp for a project develops its own DSL for the application different from other DSLs for other applications. So we'd be watching someone simultaneously live code/play music and live code their interface. Personally, I'd rather let them code the interface off stage and watch the live performance. After all, using the interface is live coding, but using the pre-built DSL.
- d--b 4y ago
  Right, good point. In some ways, sonic Pi is already a higher order interface than whatever language it's written in. I am mostly talking about the way of inputting the code though. Having someone bent over a laptop is fairly disgraceful.. Maybe people said the same when knob-turning DJs appeared.
  - karmakaze 4y ago
    This is a good 1-'man'-show[0] TEDx, where watching someone program/fiddle with (software and) knobs is great to watch. Talk's good too--build-up to performance/demo is about halfway through. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5yxIzs5Wug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5yxIzs5Wug
troutwine 4y ago
You might be interested in the approach Author & Punisher has taken.
cubano 4y ago
Hmmmm why my first instinct is to agree with you wholeheartedly, after a few moments of reflection I start thinking “well isn’t that the actual point here?” Perhaps the program designer wants people to see actual coding as an artistic expression, which of course all real programmers know is very true, and not as some nerdy boring thing that lets-face-it…many non-programmers think of it. That’s why personally I love the idea of the real time collaboration additions that are coming online these days. Like what could be better to promote coding then seeing a couple of people go fucking off sitting behind keyboards making interesting music together?
smrq 4y ago
Perhaps ORCA [1] might pique your interest. I've mostly bounced off of live coding because of the interface issue, but something about the ORCA interface tickles my eyeballs and gets the creative juices flowing. Shameless self-promo example of the language in action [2] [1] https://100r.co/site/orca.html https://100r.co/site/orca.html [2] https://youtu.be/fhYi958qqac https://youtu.be/fhYi958qqac
- crocktucker 4y ago
  I thought the same. And thanks for sharing your compositions -- I particularly enjoyed "killed in the light of a crescent moon".
jhbadger 4y ago
I don't think "live coding" music means that musicians would actually write code in front of an audience live -- it's not like musicians compose music in real time even without computers. In either case there is a lot of trial and error in getting things right that you wouldn't want an audience to see (or hear). I think "live coding" is just a fancy way of saying a programming experience with immediate feedback -- like a REPL but even more so.
- ThomasMidgley 4y ago
  There are many musicians who "build" music in live concerts with modular synthesizers (in newer times mostly with Eurorack modules). Since many decades! Without computers. With some experience they know how to handle their tools. And with some experience a good live coder can do the same with his computer too.
  - MivLives 4y ago
    I've seen performances where the live coding is just them building those same modular synths just digital. They start with a patch, and know what patch they need to end in. Everything between is up to them. Wish I had a better look at what they were doing.
opminion 4y ago
The interface is designed so that a 10-12 year old can write music-making code with little guidance. I have anecdotal evidence that it's quite good for that purpose.
MivLives 4y ago
I used to have this complaint until I saw someone do it well. The key is that can't be all their doing. One guy I saw was doing it at audience level while also being in the pit and moshing. Not sure I'll ever see anything like that again.

by d--b 4y ago

karmakaze 4y ago

If you continue the live coding (thought) experiment, you would naturally code a better interface. At that point you would be reinventing something like Ableton Live, but completely different. Similar to how using Lisp for a project develops its own DSL for the application different from other DSLs for other applications. So we'd be watching someone simultaneously live code/play music and live code their interface. Personally, I'd rather let them code the interface off stage and watch the live performance. After all, using the interface is live coding, but using the pre-built DSL.

d--b 4y ago
Right, good point. In some ways, sonic Pi is already a higher order interface than whatever language it's written in. I am mostly talking about the way of inputting the code though. Having someone bent over a laptop is fairly disgraceful.. Maybe people said the same when knob-turning DJs appeared.
- karmakaze 4y ago
  This is a good 1-'man'-show[0] TEDx, where watching someone program/fiddle with (software and) knobs is great to watch. Talk's good too--build-up to performance/demo is about halfway through. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5yxIzs5Wug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5yxIzs5Wug

troutwine 4y ago

You might be interested in the approach Author & Punisher has taken.

cubano 4y ago

Hmmmm why my first instinct is to agree with you wholeheartedly, after a few moments of reflection I start thinking “well isn’t that the actual point here?” Perhaps the program designer wants people to see actual coding as an artistic expression, which of course all real programmers know is very true, and not as some nerdy boring thing that lets-face-it…many non-programmers think of it. That’s why personally I love the idea of the real time collaboration additions that are coming online these days. Like what could be better to promote coding then seeing a couple of people go fucking off sitting behind keyboards making interesting music together?

smrq 4y ago

Perhaps ORCA [1] might pique your interest. I've mostly bounced off of live coding because of the interface issue, but something about the ORCA interface tickles my eyeballs and gets the creative juices flowing. Shameless self-promo example of the language in action [2] [1] https://100r.co/site/orca.html https://100r.co/site/orca.html [2] https://youtu.be/fhYi958qqac https://youtu.be/fhYi958qqac

crocktucker 4y ago
I thought the same. And thanks for sharing your compositions -- I particularly enjoyed "killed in the light of a crescent moon".

jhbadger 4y ago

I don't think "live coding" music means that musicians would actually write code in front of an audience live -- it's not like musicians compose music in real time even without computers. In either case there is a lot of trial and error in getting things right that you wouldn't want an audience to see (or hear). I think "live coding" is just a fancy way of saying a programming experience with immediate feedback -- like a REPL but even more so.

ThomasMidgley 4y ago
There are many musicians who "build" music in live concerts with modular synthesizers (in newer times mostly with Eurorack modules). Since many decades! Without computers. With some experience they know how to handle their tools. And with some experience a good live coder can do the same with his computer too.
- MivLives 4y ago
  I've seen performances where the live coding is just them building those same modular synths just digital. They start with a patch, and know what patch they need to end in. Everything between is up to them. Wish I had a better look at what they were doing.

opminion 4y ago

The interface is designed so that a 10-12 year old can write music-making code with little guidance. I have anecdotal evidence that it's quite good for that purpose.

MivLives 4y ago

I used to have this complaint until I saw someone do it well. The key is that can't be all their doing. One guy I saw was doing it at audience level while also being in the pit and moshing. Not sure I'll ever see anything like that again.