5 ms·

Is Math a Young Man's Game? No

18 points by hhm 18y ago

mhartl 18y ago
This is wonderfully well-written.
Prrometheus 18y ago
>What's changed? For one thing, there's simply much more mathematics to learn than there was 100 years ago. Also, our early education is excruciatingly slow. It would be interesting to follow the children who are allowed to skip through the system at their own pace and see if their period of mathematical creativity still begins later than before.
- trapper 18y ago
  Does anyone have an example of a better education system? I remember being kept in line with the curriculum until the point I realised I could learn easier myself - has anyone experienced a "good" school? Where does one find such a place?
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    I don't know a better education system. However, one of my friends in the graduate Mathematics program at Wake Forest was 18 when I was an undergrad there. I don't think he went to special schools. Certain districts let children skip ahead; most make them sit in class, earn all-A's, and suffer boredom. My friend is now 22 and close to finishing his PHD. He should start his period of productivity at a young age. I know anecdotes are not data, and maybe he is unusually bright for an unusually bright person. However, it is certainly possible for a Mathematically inclined person to start a career early in the modern era. I have Hawkin's book "God Created the Integers". It's been awhile since I've read it, but I remember that more than a few of the famous mathematicians he profiled were tackling hard problems at a young age. They certainly weren't still taking Calculus I when they were 18.
    - trapper 18y ago
      That's a shame. I wonder why there is no innovation in the education system like there is in other industries? I mean, montessori is considered innovative and it's like 60 years old? Perhaps a chance for a hacker or two :) Given how fast I have seen young people excel when given the right tuition, I suspect we haven't even begun to optimise human learning.
      - Prrometheus 18y ago
        My stock answer is that public bureaucracies are bad at innovation. Perhaps there is some sort of supplement to school that a hacker could work on for children interested in topics either outside or more advanced than the curriculum. Reforming the actual schools, though, is equivalent to reforming city hall.
- maxklein 18y ago
  Early education is slow for a tiny minority of people. You can't change the system to suit the most priviledged. That's a fast track towards creating a two-tier society. If a child is so clever, he can read books himself and he can skip grades. But if a child is lagging behind, he requires help from others.
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    Why are colleges able to cater to people of all abilities whereas our early education can not? It is a fallacy to think that we must have one system for everybody.
    - maxklein 18y ago
      Because a person at college age learns different from a child.
      - Prrometheus 18y ago
        Does a person at college age learn different from a 16 year old?
    - echair 18y ago
      Because colleges select applicants by aptitude, and elementary schools by proximity.
      - Prrometheus 18y ago
        What accounts for the difference here? Why can't K-12 institutions select by aptitude?
        echair 18y ago
        Because you can't pack enough different institutions within a sufficiently small radius. Parents want 5 year olds to live at home. They're ok with 18 year olds not.
13ren 18y ago
It is by logic we prove, it is by intuition that we invent. — Henri Poincare [to the tiny minority of fellow 40+ HWers] Intuition comes from being open to it, which comes from doing new things. I'm sure that as we get older, there is some decrease in mental flexibility and energy - but a big part of it is a choice to be less daring, less open. By analogy: it seems inevitable that old age means loss of bone density. But a study gave some menopausal women weight training - yielding dramatic (50%) increase in bone density. Use it or lose it.
sireat 18y ago
Interesting article, but it does not prove the assertion in the title. Grigori Perelman was already exceptional in his teens. If one does not get the basics(meaning calculus, linear, discrete math) down pat by 20, IMHO, one doesn't have much of a chance at serious math discoveries by later age.
adamc 18y ago
There are athletes who are great into their late 30s too, but it's still a young man's game. The article doesn't support the title.

18 points by hhm 18y ago

This is wonderfully well-written.

>What's changed? For one thing, there's simply much more mathematics to learn than there was 100 years ago. Also, our early education is excruciatingly slow. It would be interesting to follow the children who are allowed to skip through the system at their own pace and see if their period of mathematical creativity still begins later than before.

trapper 18y ago
Does anyone have an example of a better education system? I remember being kept in line with the curriculum until the point I realised I could learn easier myself - has anyone experienced a "good" school? Where does one find such a place?
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  I don't know a better education system. However, one of my friends in the graduate Mathematics program at Wake Forest was 18 when I was an undergrad there. I don't think he went to special schools. Certain districts let children skip ahead; most make them sit in class, earn all-A's, and suffer boredom. My friend is now 22 and close to finishing his PHD. He should start his period of productivity at a young age. I know anecdotes are not data, and maybe he is unusually bright for an unusually bright person. However, it is certainly possible for a Mathematically inclined person to start a career early in the modern era. I have Hawkin's book "God Created the Integers". It's been awhile since I've read it, but I remember that more than a few of the famous mathematicians he profiled were tackling hard problems at a young age. They certainly weren't still taking Calculus I when they were 18.
  - trapper 18y ago
    That's a shame. I wonder why there is no innovation in the education system like there is in other industries? I mean, montessori is considered innovative and it's like 60 years old? Perhaps a chance for a hacker or two :) Given how fast I have seen young people excel when given the right tuition, I suspect we haven't even begun to optimise human learning.
    - Prrometheus 18y ago
      My stock answer is that public bureaucracies are bad at innovation. Perhaps there is some sort of supplement to school that a hacker could work on for children interested in topics either outside or more advanced than the curriculum. Reforming the actual schools, though, is equivalent to reforming city hall.
maxklein 18y ago
Early education is slow for a tiny minority of people. You can't change the system to suit the most priviledged. That's a fast track towards creating a two-tier society. If a child is so clever, he can read books himself and he can skip grades. But if a child is lagging behind, he requires help from others.
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  Why are colleges able to cater to people of all abilities whereas our early education can not? It is a fallacy to think that we must have one system for everybody.
  - maxklein 18y ago
    Because a person at college age learns different from a child.
    - Prrometheus 18y ago
      Does a person at college age learn different from a 16 year old?
  - echair 18y ago
    Because colleges select applicants by aptitude, and elementary schools by proximity.
    - Prrometheus 18y ago
      What accounts for the difference here? Why can't K-12 institutions select by aptitude?
      - echair 18y ago
        Because you can't pack enough different institutions within a sufficiently small radius. Parents want 5 year olds to live at home. They're ok with 18 year olds not.

13ren 18y ago

It is by logic we prove, it is by intuition that we invent. — Henri Poincare [to the tiny minority of fellow 40+ HWers] Intuition comes from being open to it, which comes from doing new things. I'm sure that as we get older, there is some decrease in mental flexibility and energy - but a big part of it is a choice to be less daring, less open. By analogy: it seems inevitable that old age means loss of bone density. But a study gave some menopausal women weight training - yielding dramatic (50%) increase in bone density. Use it or lose it.

sireat 18y ago

Interesting article, but it does not prove the assertion in the title. Grigori Perelman was already exceptional in his teens. If one does not get the basics(meaning calculus, linear, discrete math) down pat by 20, IMHO, one doesn't have much of a chance at serious math discoveries by later age.

adamc 18y ago

There are athletes who are great into their late 30s too, but it's still a young man's game. The article doesn't support the title.