3 ms·

What are you talking about? PHP back end, HTML pages, CSS style sheets, Javascript to make it all run, and all this on a per browser type and version basis.

by danssig 15y ago

zerostar07 15y ago
html css and javascripts are standards across the industry (despite minor differences per browser vendor). That is the huge advantage of the web. PHP is just one backend, which really could be replaced by anything else. Are you telling me native apps don't need server backends?
- danssig 15y ago
  >despite minor differences per browser vendor Minor? Keep in mind, it's not just per browser vendor. It's per version, per browser vendor. This is handled better today with the score of libraries you have to add in any web project but the problem is still there and will likely get worse before it gets better. >That is the huge advantage of the web. What? Objective-C is a standard. Cocoa is a known entity. So already I have one language and one API compared to three languages. If I include Android then I have two languages and two APIs vs three completely different and unrelated languages. >PHP is just one backend, which really could be replaced by anything else. Unless you replace it with JavaScript, that's yet another language I need to write and maintain. Not to mention, after all this effort I still can't consistently (if at all) provide an interface as nice as I can with an App. > Are you telling me native apps don't need server backends? Some do, not all. But of the ones that do, much of what you would need to do is just handled by the framework (e.g. storing data in the cloud, syncing, game serving and coordination, all handled by IOS SDK with no backend work on my part).
  - zerostar07 15y ago
    1) No, it actually gets better over time, and with jquery (which is still javascript) the problem is already solved. Still, you use the same language that you learnt 10 years ago 2) Learn a whole language and a whole api for one of the ~10 different mobile platforms vs 1 single language for every browser? That's a huge advantage. Seriously how much time you have to waste on learning different frameworks that do the same thing (display an app on a touch device)? 3) The backend problem is the same for both native and web apps; and PHP won't ever make your website snappier than an app because that's a browser problem. "three completely different and unrelated languages." What does that even mean? It's a stack of 3 complementary and orthogonal technologies that don't overlap. Don't you need to learn about layout and properties files when you do iOS development or android development or x development? For me it all comes down to developer happiness, that is, achieve maximum effect in less time. That's why i m a webdev diehard and will never endeavor on proprietary closed frameworks.
    - danssig 15y ago
      >It's a stack of 3 complementary and orthogonal technologies that don't overlap. Irrelevant. I need one language to describe the data, a completely different language to specify how to lay it out and a third completely different language to do any dynamic work (which is a lot these days). In e.g. iOS I can do all this with Objective-C. >For me it all comes down to developer happiness, that is, achieve maximum effect in less time. Agreed. >That's why i m a webdev diehard and will never endeavor on proprietary closed frameworks. That's why I'm not and hopefully will never have to be.
      - zerostar07 15y ago
        We are obviously in different camps. Yet, regarding the first point, it's not irrelevant. Can you layout apps in ios or android without learning about layout files, property files or what else?
        danssig 15y ago
        Actually yes. I can't speak to Android but on iOS you can just drag the controls where you want them to be. Or you could just do it all in code. You don't have to learn anything but the language and the APIs if you don't want to.

What are you talking about? PHP back end, HTML pages, CSS style sheets, Javascript to make it all run, and all this on a per browser type and version basis.

by danssig 15y ago

What are you talking about? PHP back end, HTML pages, CSS style sheets, Javascript to make it all run, and all this on a per browser type and version basis.

zerostar07 15y ago

html css and javascripts are standards across the industry (despite minor differences per browser vendor). That is the huge advantage of the web. PHP is just one backend, which really could be replaced by anything else. Are you telling me native apps don't need server backends?

danssig 15y ago
>despite minor differences per browser vendor Minor? Keep in mind, it's not just per browser vendor. It's per version, per browser vendor. This is handled better today with the score of libraries you have to add in any web project but the problem is still there and will likely get worse before it gets better. >That is the huge advantage of the web. What? Objective-C is a standard. Cocoa is a known entity. So already I have one language and one API compared to three languages. If I include Android then I have two languages and two APIs vs three completely different and unrelated languages. >PHP is just one backend, which really could be replaced by anything else. Unless you replace it with JavaScript, that's yet another language I need to write and maintain. Not to mention, after all this effort I still can't consistently (if at all) provide an interface as nice as I can with an App. > Are you telling me native apps don't need server backends? Some do, not all. But of the ones that do, much of what you would need to do is just handled by the framework (e.g. storing data in the cloud, syncing, game serving and coordination, all handled by IOS SDK with no backend work on my part).
- zerostar07 15y ago
  1) No, it actually gets better over time, and with jquery (which is still javascript) the problem is already solved. Still, you use the same language that you learnt 10 years ago 2) Learn a whole language and a whole api for one of the ~10 different mobile platforms vs 1 single language for every browser? That's a huge advantage. Seriously how much time you have to waste on learning different frameworks that do the same thing (display an app on a touch device)? 3) The backend problem is the same for both native and web apps; and PHP won't ever make your website snappier than an app because that's a browser problem. "three completely different and unrelated languages." What does that even mean? It's a stack of 3 complementary and orthogonal technologies that don't overlap. Don't you need to learn about layout and properties files when you do iOS development or android development or x development? For me it all comes down to developer happiness, that is, achieve maximum effect in less time. That's why i m a webdev diehard and will never endeavor on proprietary closed frameworks.
  - danssig 15y ago
    >It's a stack of 3 complementary and orthogonal technologies that don't overlap. Irrelevant. I need one language to describe the data, a completely different language to specify how to lay it out and a third completely different language to do any dynamic work (which is a lot these days). In e.g. iOS I can do all this with Objective-C. >For me it all comes down to developer happiness, that is, achieve maximum effect in less time. Agreed. >That's why i m a webdev diehard and will never endeavor on proprietary closed frameworks. That's why I'm not and hopefully will never have to be.
    - zerostar07 15y ago
      We are obviously in different camps. Yet, regarding the first point, it's not irrelevant. Can you layout apps in ios or android without learning about layout files, property files or what else?
      - danssig 15y ago
        Actually yes. I can't speak to Android but on iOS you can just drag the controls where you want them to be. Or you could just do it all in code. You don't have to learn anything but the language and the APIs if you don't want to.