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Yeah this argument is getting more and more tenuous every time it's rolled out. "It's just the Apple way" has been used to defend just about everything at this

Yeah this argument is getting more and more tenuous every time it's rolled out. "It's just the Apple way" has been used to defend just about everything at this point. Unclear support terms and unsupported software for machines that were sold brand new at retail just a couple of years ago at premium prices is just plain wrong. EDIT: I've changed "a few months" to "a couple of years" as I can't find the link that explains which of the languished SKUs was still being sold on the Apple.com site as new shortly before being axed in Ventura. It also doesn't include refurb Macs or those that are still in retail channels which would make the support life even shorter from new. This is a far cry from Windows 10 to Windows 11, where blocking old machines (while still allowing a workaround) due to genuine security enhancements was met with uproar. Thankfully no T2 Macs have been dropped yet but I suspect despite having great hardware and being perfectly capable (and supporting enclave security and encryption hardware), they'll be axed unceremoniously in a couple of years anyway.

petemir 4y ago
Obviously. Yet people keeps buying from them.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  There are benefits to getting on with version updates. When I do software for macOS I know that the culture is I don't have to test on 10 old versions that people might be running. It's reasonable in macOS to just say 'you obviously have to be running the latest version' which simplifies so much, and allows me to get on with more of what matters.
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    But the rest of that sentence is “.. unless your machine is slightly older in which case just throw it in the Bin and drop another $2k on a new one like it’s no big deal.”
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      Run a different operating system, or run it air-gapped, or sell the machine back to Apple and let them recycle it. I don't know why you'd choose to 'throw it in the bin' that's insane. I think it's pretty great how Apple will buy back my laptop from me for 1/4 the price after a few years. Other manufacturers don't seem to do that.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - dividedbyzero 4y ago
        Weird, last time I checked I was quoted 300-ish Euros on a >3000 Euro Intel MBP from 2020 in good condition, still getting updates and probably will keep getting them for years to come.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        > in good condition, still getting updates and probably will keep getting them for years to come Lol so what is the problem? Why would you bin it?
        dividedbyzero 4y ago
        > Lol so what is the problem? Apple's offer after two years is a lot less than the quarter of the retail price that was mentioned by parent and will probably be much worse still by the time they deprecate them. Just not as attractive an option as parent made it seem, at least for me if I wanted to get rid of it.
        highwaylights 4y ago
        I get that you’re saying it shouldn’t literally be thrown in the bin - but your argument is utterly terrible. Getting an offer of 10% of the purchase price to buy back a laptop after two years is offensive.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    It would be good to consult actual metrics about the population size on each old OS version and on each old device. It might surprise you. I used to argue constantly with the "Apple Culture Guy" at an app company I worked for. They always wanted to target only the latest few OS versions, and chop off support for the old ones. Yes, most of our users were on the latest version. But there was a very long tail of users on the trail of older devices/OS's, adding up to more than 10%. Would a salesman answer his phone and tell 1 out of 10 of his leads to fuck off? No, so why would we do it to our existing customers? Sure enough, every time we cut off an old device or OS, we'd get customers complaining and giving bad reviews. But then, Mr. Apple Culture guy would look at the dashboard and say "See? Nobody is using that version anymore!" No shit, it's because we cut it off and those users bailed on us, genius. Backwards compatibility is one of the greatest services you can give to your customer. Cutting off support for old versions simply because you're too lazy to maintain that support is just telling those customers to fuck off and find a competitor. The code simplifications/savings that you get from dropping old versions are seldom worth that. They often amount to one or two more lines with an if() statement.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      But it costs to support those old versions. At just 10%, it may well not be worth it.
adastra22 4y ago
Idk about macOS, but the iPod touch was discontinued only a few months before iOS 16 was rolled out, which did not go to the touch.

petemir 4y ago

Obviously. Yet people keeps buying from them.

chrisseaton 4y ago
There are benefits to getting on with version updates. When I do software for macOS I know that the culture is I don't have to test on 10 old versions that people might be running. It's reasonable in macOS to just say 'you obviously have to be running the latest version' which simplifies so much, and allows me to get on with more of what matters.
- highwaylights 4y ago
  But the rest of that sentence is “.. unless your machine is slightly older in which case just throw it in the Bin and drop another $2k on a new one like it’s no big deal.”
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Run a different operating system, or run it air-gapped, or sell the machine back to Apple and let them recycle it. I don't know why you'd choose to 'throw it in the bin' that's insane. I think it's pretty great how Apple will buy back my laptop from me for 1/4 the price after a few years. Other manufacturers don't seem to do that.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - dividedbyzero 4y ago
      Weird, last time I checked I was quoted 300-ish Euros on a >3000 Euro Intel MBP from 2020 in good condition, still getting updates and probably will keep getting them for years to come.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        > in good condition, still getting updates and probably will keep getting them for years to come Lol so what is the problem? Why would you bin it?
        dividedbyzero 4y ago
        > Lol so what is the problem? Apple's offer after two years is a lot less than the quarter of the retail price that was mentioned by parent and will probably be much worse still by the time they deprecate them. Just not as attractive an option as parent made it seem, at least for me if I wanted to get rid of it.
        highwaylights 4y ago
        I get that you’re saying it shouldn’t literally be thrown in the bin - but your argument is utterly terrible. Getting an offer of 10% of the purchase price to buy back a laptop after two years is offensive.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  It would be good to consult actual metrics about the population size on each old OS version and on each old device. It might surprise you. I used to argue constantly with the "Apple Culture Guy" at an app company I worked for. They always wanted to target only the latest few OS versions, and chop off support for the old ones. Yes, most of our users were on the latest version. But there was a very long tail of users on the trail of older devices/OS's, adding up to more than 10%. Would a salesman answer his phone and tell 1 out of 10 of his leads to fuck off? No, so why would we do it to our existing customers? Sure enough, every time we cut off an old device or OS, we'd get customers complaining and giving bad reviews. But then, Mr. Apple Culture guy would look at the dashboard and say "See? Nobody is using that version anymore!" No shit, it's because we cut it off and those users bailed on us, genius. Backwards compatibility is one of the greatest services you can give to your customer. Cutting off support for old versions simply because you're too lazy to maintain that support is just telling those customers to fuck off and find a competitor. The code simplifications/savings that you get from dropping old versions are seldom worth that. They often amount to one or two more lines with an if() statement.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    But it costs to support those old versions. At just 10%, it may well not be worth it.

adastra22 4y ago

Idk about macOS, but the iPod touch was discontinued only a few months before iOS 16 was rolled out, which did not go to the touch.