3 ms·

> It’s not what they’re offering. I don't know why you'd attempt it therefore I'm not saying you're wrong, but how did you conclude that? Not from the marketin

by ghusto 4y ago

> It’s not what they’re offering. I don't know why you'd attempt it therefore I'm not saying you're wrong, but how did you conclude that? Not from the marketing ("And one more thing; we're not going to support this long-term!" — to rapturous applause), not from their specs, website, release notes, or anything like that. No, my guess is you read between the lines that Apple is a disposable-consumer-product company. Of course they'd never admit this, and _that's_ the problem here. It is not unreasonable to expect long-term support for software, and brushing that under the carpet with "ah well, you know what Apple's like", just gives them license to never have to _admit_ what they are.

msh 4y ago
Ehmm, from the article: Evidence from version numbers of APFS, a critical sub-system in macOS, is entirely consistent with Apple’s claimed support policy, of only fully maintaining the current version of macOS, and only providing security updates to superseded macOS for two years after that.
chrisseaton 4y ago
Apple's support policy is I believe explicitly to only fully support the current version. But I can't find anything to quote right now. I know this, so I update immediately, and get on with it. If you do something else then you're just denying reality. > It is not unreasonable to expect long-term support for software It is unreasonable to expect that, if that is not what has ever been promised to you or delivered in practice.
- ghusto 4y ago
  > But I can't find anything to quote right now And you never will. Part of my point was that they want all the benefits of saying they're not going to provide long-term support, with none of the downsides of saying it. Hence you _know_ this to be true, but can't find it written down. > I know this, so I update immediately, and get on with it. If you do something else then you're just denying reality. "My boss treats me like badly / my internet service is poor / none of the software I paid for works two years from now / [any other endless examples of being treated like a shmuck]. I know this, and just get on with it. If you do something else then you're just denying reality" > It is unreasonable to expect that, if that is not what has ever been promised to you or delivered in practice. I don't need to be explicitly promised reasonable terms to find the way I'm being treated unreasonable. "Well, we never _said_ it would still work in a few years" is not going to cut it. People, we used to have standards. Some of you are too young to remember — and I do _not_ mean to sound condescending, it's just true that some of you weren't around back then — but people had expectations of products, and they were high (in comparison to today). You bought things for life. We've been frog-boiled through iterations by companies like Apple to accept throwaway culture.
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  I'm not sure about support policy, but they definitely release security updates for old operating systems.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Yeah, hence 'fully'. Getting a new file system version isn't security (unless it's specifically a security flaw.)

by ghusto 4y ago

msh 4y ago

Ehmm, from the article: Evidence from version numbers of APFS, a critical sub-system in macOS, is entirely consistent with Apple’s claimed support policy, of only fully maintaining the current version of macOS, and only providing security updates to superseded macOS for two years after that.

chrisseaton 4y ago

Apple's support policy is I believe explicitly to only fully support the current version. But I can't find anything to quote right now. I know this, so I update immediately, and get on with it. If you do something else then you're just denying reality. > It is not unreasonable to expect long-term support for software It is unreasonable to expect that, if that is not what has ever been promised to you or delivered in practice.

ghusto 4y ago
> But I can't find anything to quote right now And you never will. Part of my point was that they want all the benefits of saying they're not going to provide long-term support, with none of the downsides of saying it. Hence you _know_ this to be true, but can't find it written down. > I know this, so I update immediately, and get on with it. If you do something else then you're just denying reality. "My boss treats me like badly / my internet service is poor / none of the software I paid for works two years from now / [any other endless examples of being treated like a shmuck]. I know this, and just get on with it. If you do something else then you're just denying reality" > It is unreasonable to expect that, if that is not what has ever been promised to you or delivered in practice. I don't need to be explicitly promised reasonable terms to find the way I'm being treated unreasonable. "Well, we never _said_ it would still work in a few years" is not going to cut it. People, we used to have standards. Some of you are too young to remember — and I do _not_ mean to sound condescending, it's just true that some of you weren't around back then — but people had expectations of products, and they were high (in comparison to today). You bought things for life. We've been frog-boiled through iterations by companies like Apple to accept throwaway culture.
vbezhenar 4y ago
I'm not sure about support policy, but they definitely release security updates for old operating systems.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Yeah, hence 'fully'. Getting a new file system version isn't security (unless it's specifically a security flaw.)