4 ms·

Can Qualcomm or any other company own such license ? or is it monopoly.

rkangel 4y ago
Qualcomm already are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture_family#Architectural_licence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture_family#Archit...
- Varloom 4y ago
  Then on what basis they are targeted by this lawsuit but not Apple or Samsung for example.
  - vulcan01 4y ago
    Arm was a joint venture between Acorn and Apple and another company whose name I forget. It's not unreasonable to think that Apple might have some special benefits due to that.
    - pmyteh 4y ago
      VLSI Technology. As I understand it, Acorn provided the existing ARM2 chip and its design team, VLSI Technology provided design and fabrication expertise, and Apple provided capital (and the potential for the use of the design beyond Acorn).
      - masklinn 4y ago
        VLSI was also the major ARM-based designer / manufacturer at the time, there was almost nobody else building SoC on ARM.
  - fredoralive 4y ago
    AFAIK its roughly that a startup called Nuvia was working on server focussed ARM chips. As this is a market ARM are interested in growing, they got a good deal on licensing terms etc. Then Nuvia got bought by Qualcomm, and ARM don't seem to want Qualcomm to benefit from the special deal Nuvia had. Hence the big lawsuit.
  - mdasen 4y ago
    Qualcomm is being targeted because they bought Nuvia. In some ways, it's Nuvia being targeted. ARM alleges that Nuvia's architecture license required them to get ARM's approval before transferring their chip designs to another company and that without ARM's approval, all their designs had to be destroyed. Qualcomm bought Nuvia. Apple and Samsung didn't buy a company that had designed ARM cores with this restriction. Apple bought PA Semi, but they were a PowerPC company before Apple bought them. Samsung has been making its own cores for a long time based on in-house designs. Qualcomm has tried to make its own cores and failed. It bought Nuvia because it failed to make its own cores. ARM alleges that Nuvia's license requires ARM approval for them to transfer their chip designs to another company. Therefore, Qualcomm/Nuvia is targeted by this lawsuit while Apple and Samsung aren't. If you're ARM, you say that Apple and Samsung played by the rules of their licenses so there's no reason to sue them. If you're ARM, you say that Nuvia agreed it wouldn't sell the designs it made under Nuvia's license from ARM without ARM's approval. Nuvia then did sell the designs made under that license. Nuvia didn't play by the rules of its license, therefore they're getting sued. When Qualcomm was developing its own internal custom cores, there was no talk of ARM suing Qualcomm - it's only come about because they bought Nuvia to bootstrap their custom cores where they had failed. ARM alleges this isn't allowed by Nuvia's license.
    - chrisjc 4y ago
      Apologies if you've already answered this question (all of your comments are great, but still pretty hard for me to digest), but what do you supposed the outcome of Qualcomm/Nuvia requesting ARM's approval before the acquisition might have been? Straight up "no", "yes" (thank you for asking) or just a matter of how much money?
      - masklinn 4y ago
        Probably a mix of "no" and "how much money": Nuvia definitely got a deal on licensing cost. But a probably bigger sticking point is that Nuvia may have gotten a deal on licensing restrictions, as they were trying to pierce into an interesting market (server chips). That would be a major reason for Nuvia's licensing preventing transfer of their IP without approval.

Qualcomm already are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture_family#Architectural_licence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture_family#Archit...

Varloom 4y ago
Then on what basis they are targeted by this lawsuit but not Apple or Samsung for example.
- vulcan01 4y ago
  Arm was a joint venture between Acorn and Apple and another company whose name I forget. It's not unreasonable to think that Apple might have some special benefits due to that.
  - pmyteh 4y ago
    VLSI Technology. As I understand it, Acorn provided the existing ARM2 chip and its design team, VLSI Technology provided design and fabrication expertise, and Apple provided capital (and the potential for the use of the design beyond Acorn).
    - masklinn 4y ago
      VLSI was also the major ARM-based designer / manufacturer at the time, there was almost nobody else building SoC on ARM.
- fredoralive 4y ago
  AFAIK its roughly that a startup called Nuvia was working on server focussed ARM chips. As this is a market ARM are interested in growing, they got a good deal on licensing terms etc. Then Nuvia got bought by Qualcomm, and ARM don't seem to want Qualcomm to benefit from the special deal Nuvia had. Hence the big lawsuit.
- mdasen 4y ago
  Qualcomm is being targeted because they bought Nuvia. In some ways, it's Nuvia being targeted. ARM alleges that Nuvia's architecture license required them to get ARM's approval before transferring their chip designs to another company and that without ARM's approval, all their designs had to be destroyed. Qualcomm bought Nuvia. Apple and Samsung didn't buy a company that had designed ARM cores with this restriction. Apple bought PA Semi, but they were a PowerPC company before Apple bought them. Samsung has been making its own cores for a long time based on in-house designs. Qualcomm has tried to make its own cores and failed. It bought Nuvia because it failed to make its own cores. ARM alleges that Nuvia's license requires ARM approval for them to transfer their chip designs to another company. Therefore, Qualcomm/Nuvia is targeted by this lawsuit while Apple and Samsung aren't. If you're ARM, you say that Apple and Samsung played by the rules of their licenses so there's no reason to sue them. If you're ARM, you say that Nuvia agreed it wouldn't sell the designs it made under Nuvia's license from ARM without ARM's approval. Nuvia then did sell the designs made under that license. Nuvia didn't play by the rules of its license, therefore they're getting sued. When Qualcomm was developing its own internal custom cores, there was no talk of ARM suing Qualcomm - it's only come about because they bought Nuvia to bootstrap their custom cores where they had failed. ARM alleges this isn't allowed by Nuvia's license.
  - chrisjc 4y ago
    Apologies if you've already answered this question (all of your comments are great, but still pretty hard for me to digest), but what do you supposed the outcome of Qualcomm/Nuvia requesting ARM's approval before the acquisition might have been? Straight up "no", "yes" (thank you for asking) or just a matter of how much money?
    - masklinn 4y ago
      Probably a mix of "no" and "how much money": Nuvia definitely got a deal on licensing cost. But a probably bigger sticking point is that Nuvia may have gotten a deal on licensing restrictions, as they were trying to pierce into an interesting market (server chips). That would be a major reason for Nuvia's licensing preventing transfer of their IP without approval.