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> Syntax is constrained by prosody, which is also extremely unintuitive to Mandarin learners. Definitely true, but I don't think your analysis holds. Prosody
by dwohnitmok 4y ago
> Syntax is constrained by prosody, which is also extremely unintuitive to Mandarin learners.
Definitely true, but I don't think your analysis holds. Prosody is an important part of determining when you need bisyllabic or monosyllabic words in Chinese which doesn't have an equivalent in English, but you don't fill it in with what are effectively nonsense words.
> you have to insert the meaningless 路 for the prosody to sound correct (you would say "我在走路" even if you weren't walking on a road at all!)
Not really. 路 still has some semantic content. E.g. if you're walking about indoors in your house it sounds weird to say "走路." I do agree that a bisyllabic word sounds better there. Other context and emphasis could also make 我在走 work (I am walking for example), but often times that ties back to prosody as you say.
> 们 is not always a pluralizer
It is generally a pluralizer with the constraint that it must be applied for people. That's why it sounds weird applied to cows. 李先生们 could actually mean "Mr. Lis" (i.e. a group of men all with that surname, or some slang usage of "Mr. Li" in the same way you might say "they're a bunch of Benedict Arnolds"). Indeed that was my first instinct when you wrote that phrase. I don't understand what you mean by "and company." That's not how I would understand 李先生们.
Also historically, 们 used to be an even more general people pluralizer that could be applied to demonstratives. E.g. in Song Dynasty Mandarin 那们 is perfectly acceptable and means "those people." It has become more restricted in modern usage.
> In fact, most of the time, plurals in Mandarin are actually completely implicit and you have to figure it out from context!
This is true.
- vore 4y ago> Not really. 路 still has some semantic content. E.g. if you're walking about indoors in your house it sounds weird to say "走路." I do agree that a bisyllabic word sounds better there. Other context and emphasis could also make 我在走 work (I am walking for example), but often times that ties back to prosody as you say. That’s a good point, and I think if you wanted to talk about walking indoors the prosody requirements make it even more difficult (我在我家里走来走去?) > I don't understand what you mean by "and company." That's not how I would understand 李先生们. I’ve definitely seen writings like “毛泽东先生们” but perhaps the usage is a little more archaic than I thought! I do think you’re right in that the usage really is just a pluralizer for people rather than my wackier definition.
- dwohnitmok 4y ago> 毛泽东先生们 This means something closer to "Mao Zedongists" rather than "Mao and company." For example "毛泽东本人的看法与其他毛泽东们略有不同" works, which doesn't quite work if 毛泽东们 is "Mao and company." It's still a pluralizer, it just so happens that proper names can be modifiers in Chinese.