4 ms·

Except the party that would support such a program doesn't like voter id requirements and the party that wants voter id is hostile to putting government resour

by ydlr 4y ago

Except the party that would support such a program doesn't like voter id requirements and the party that wants voter id is hostile to putting government resources into making id easier to get.

WalterBright 4y ago
You don't actually need the government here. The party that protests that people don't have ID can, themselves, do outreach to get them ID.
skissane 4y ago
Here’s what I don’t get about this topic: Democratic voters skew urban, Republican voters skew rural: isn’t government ID easier to acquire in urban areas than rural ones? If you need to go to some government office to do so, odds are in a rural area you’ll be travelling a greater distance to get to it, taking up more time and money, requiring more time off work, etc. Wouldn’t it thereby follow that voter ID laws actually hurt Republicans more than Democrats? Why then do the former support them and the later oppose them?
- geysersam 4y ago
  Voter id laws hurt minorities and economically marginalized groups significantly more. These groups tend to vote democrat. There are many more factors involved than the physical distance to an office distributing IDs.
  - skissane 4y ago
    Is it still true that "economically marginalized groups... tend to vote democrat"? In 2020, Trump won "high school or less" by 15 points, while Biden won postgraduates by 35 points [0] – surely the former group are much more "economically marginalized" than the later? Likewise, I would be surprised if there is anyone with a postgraduate degree who lacks government-issued ID, while I would expect that the vast majority of those who do lack it would belong to the "high school or less" educational category. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/pp_2021-06-30_validated-voters_00-03/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-biden...
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      Why are you looking at education rate rather than income? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election#Voter_Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidentia...
      - skissane 4y ago
        Isn’t education level a better indicator of social class than income? An unemployed grad student may currently have lower income than the high school dropout with a full-time low-skill job, but quite possibly has far greater future earnings potential.
    - geysersam 4y ago
      Yes it's still true.
  - tb_technical 4y ago
    I don't believe minorities don't drive cars or purchase alcoholic beverages. Nor do I belive they're incapable of getting an ID. They have IDs and it's not a tall ask. Many European countries use IDs to verify the integrity of the voter but for some reason we can't in the USA?
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    Why don't the Democrats organize to get them ID? It would seem like a no-brainer get-out-the-vote initiative.
  - _chu1 4y ago
    How
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  >If you need to go to some government office to do so, odds are in a rural area you’ll be travelling a greater distance to get to it, taking up more time and money, requiring more time off work, etc A rural office often is overstaffed for the population compared to an urban one, so while it may take a bit longer to drive there you'll spend less time at the DMV. Plus, traveling thirty miles in a rural setting can be quicker than ten in an urban one. Basically I don't think this is a meaningful difference, and it has nothing to do with why some Republicans are against a required free ID.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    Who is against a free government ID? I never heard of such opposition.
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      People think it'd be too invasive or expensive, and allows for things like tracking gun owners or racial profiling. The Real ID act, which didn't even create a national ID merely required certain standards for state ID, was so controversial that I'm not sure all states comply with it seventeen years later. And there are still some people so opposed to a government ID that they don't register their births or get social security numbers.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        I didn't say it had to be a national ID card. A state one would be good enough. > allows for things like tracking gun owners If that were true, the Democrats would be in favor of national ID > or racial profiling I don't see how. An ID card needn't specify race. > some people so opposed to a government ID that they don't register their births or get social security numbers And yet they register to vote?
        boomboomsubban 4y ago
        >I didn't say it had to be a national ID card. A state one would be good enough. I basically did, and as you were asking me the question I assumed you were asking why some Republicans are opposed to a required free ID. I tacked in a bit about why some Democrats may be opposed to it, but I'm not sure what you're hoping for by attacking my proof that there are people that oppose a required free ID. Most of my point was that the time needed to get an ID is not a meaningful factor in any party's support of this issue.

by ydlr 4y ago

Except the party that would support such a program doesn't like voter id requirements and the party that wants voter id is hostile to putting government resources into making id easier to get.

WalterBright 4y ago

You don't actually need the government here. The party that protests that people don't have ID can, themselves, do outreach to get them ID.

skissane 4y ago

Here’s what I don’t get about this topic: Democratic voters skew urban, Republican voters skew rural: isn’t government ID easier to acquire in urban areas than rural ones? If you need to go to some government office to do so, odds are in a rural area you’ll be travelling a greater distance to get to it, taking up more time and money, requiring more time off work, etc. Wouldn’t it thereby follow that voter ID laws actually hurt Republicans more than Democrats? Why then do the former support them and the later oppose them?

geysersam 4y ago
Voter id laws hurt minorities and economically marginalized groups significantly more. These groups tend to vote democrat. There are many more factors involved than the physical distance to an office distributing IDs.
- skissane 4y ago
  Is it still true that "economically marginalized groups... tend to vote democrat"? In 2020, Trump won "high school or less" by 15 points, while Biden won postgraduates by 35 points [0] – surely the former group are much more "economically marginalized" than the later? Likewise, I would be surprised if there is anyone with a postgraduate degree who lacks government-issued ID, while I would expect that the vast majority of those who do lack it would belong to the "high school or less" educational category. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/pp_2021-06-30_validated-voters_00-03/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-biden...
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    Why are you looking at education rate rather than income? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election#Voter_Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidentia...
    - skissane 4y ago
      Isn’t education level a better indicator of social class than income? An unemployed grad student may currently have lower income than the high school dropout with a full-time low-skill job, but quite possibly has far greater future earnings potential.
  - geysersam 4y ago
    Yes it's still true.
- tb_technical 4y ago
  I don't believe minorities don't drive cars or purchase alcoholic beverages. Nor do I belive they're incapable of getting an ID. They have IDs and it's not a tall ask. Many European countries use IDs to verify the integrity of the voter but for some reason we can't in the USA?
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Why don't the Democrats organize to get them ID? It would seem like a no-brainer get-out-the-vote initiative.
- _chu1 4y ago
  How
boomboomsubban 4y ago
>If you need to go to some government office to do so, odds are in a rural area you’ll be travelling a greater distance to get to it, taking up more time and money, requiring more time off work, etc A rural office often is overstaffed for the population compared to an urban one, so while it may take a bit longer to drive there you'll spend less time at the DMV. Plus, traveling thirty miles in a rural setting can be quicker than ten in an urban one. Basically I don't think this is a meaningful difference, and it has nothing to do with why some Republicans are against a required free ID.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Who is against a free government ID? I never heard of such opposition.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    People think it'd be too invasive or expensive, and allows for things like tracking gun owners or racial profiling. The Real ID act, which didn't even create a national ID merely required certain standards for state ID, was so controversial that I'm not sure all states comply with it seventeen years later. And there are still some people so opposed to a government ID that they don't register their births or get social security numbers.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      I didn't say it had to be a national ID card. A state one would be good enough. > allows for things like tracking gun owners If that were true, the Democrats would be in favor of national ID > or racial profiling I don't see how. An ID card needn't specify race. > some people so opposed to a government ID that they don't register their births or get social security numbers And yet they register to vote?
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        >I didn't say it had to be a national ID card. A state one would be good enough. I basically did, and as you were asking me the question I assumed you were asking why some Republicans are opposed to a required free ID. I tacked in a bit about why some Democrats may be opposed to it, but I'm not sure what you're hoping for by attacking my proof that there are people that oppose a required free ID. Most of my point was that the time needed to get an ID is not a meaningful factor in any party's support of this issue.