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How do algorithmic feeds work in the fediverse? Are there already services out there the last slurp in a ton of activitypub feed data and help surface content

How do algorithmic feeds work in the fediverse? Are there already services out there the last slurp in a ton of activitypub feed data and help surface content to users that they will enjoy? Some of the centralized social media services do this extremely well after you've been using them for awhile (YouTube in particular)

zrail 4y ago
I'm sure you could do that but, thus far, it seems like algorithmic feeds are rejected wholesale by the fediverse communities.
- doener 4y ago
  Yes: "Does Mastodon or the Fediverse use ads or trackers or algorithms or blockchain or cryptocurrency or anything annoying like that? No. There are no ads, no trackers, the timeline shows all posts from everyone you follow in chronological order, and there is no blockchain/cryptocurrency/web3. Fediverse servers connect to each other using traditional sustainable methods that email and websites have used for decades." https://fedi.tips/mastodon-and-the-fediverse-beginners-start-here/ https://fedi.tips/mastodon-and-the-fediverse-beginners-start...
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Yeah, I'm sure the Fediverse doesn't use any "algorithms."
    - _Algernon_ 4y ago
      There is no need to be pedantic. Everyone knows that "algorithm" is synonymous with "recommendation engine" these days.
barbazoo 4y ago
It's funny but I definitely wouldn't have put YT on that list. Even after attempting to "train" it by removing from the feed stuff I'm not interested in, it's still very random and comically irrelevant at times.
- lsaferite 4y ago
  YT is SO bad. It's not even funny at this point.
rektide 4y ago
This solutionism is kind of a little a lot problematic. Expecting a single pat answer that utterly projects & reduces all possible wins into a single minded "this is how it will work" confines imagination & potential (just by the pointed ask alone), reduces a complex place we can keep exploring & winning & growing, into an overbearing consumerist expectation that all answers are known, all is worked out, and that there is some total answer thats gonna drop in our laps. Synthetic feeds of recommendations is an open topic. How much data one is willing to send upstream, as inputs to one's recommender engine, is as much of a topic as how such things would work, what kind of activitypub feeds the engine would emit. Right now there's nearly nothing & (while I dont agree) a vast amount of the userbase considers this lack to be a feature: a distinguishing characteristic that makes this network human and not aggressively eye-ball stealing machine & greedy. Human connection & old fashioned following people you run into is a win for organic matter & innate connection over pre-programmed ways to insure more eyeball-time. That philosophy battle aside: there's infinite possibilities here. The way the question is phrased expects there is a singular clear way. You probably should not sign up for a fediverse instance! You dont seem like a fit.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  You seem to be shadowboxing a non-existent opponent. If anything, their reference to service*s* suggests that they do not expect a singular clear way.
  - rektide 4y ago
    > already services out there the last slurp in a ton of activitypub feed data this posting was from the enemy seeking an evil reductionist desire deeply in opposition to what this world wants (self definition) and you are ungenerous & unmoderate in unwillingness to meet part way here. bad things here from bad intent! be warned. this is a vile path. i still think some room should be allowed or explored. i still found the original ask to be incredibly solutionistic & consumeristic in gross ways. there was zero interest in enjoining the effort at all; it expected, without involving.
kornhole 4y ago
Centralized algorithms for feeds are generally rejected by the community so far. Some projects such as Mastodon provide users the ability define filters of their raw chronological feed. People can also use and follow hashtags.
mariusor 4y ago
In ActivityPub "feeds" are not really a thing. A "feed" is the content of an Actor's Inbox and it will contain all the Activities that have been received by that Actor in chronological order. That being said, you can overlay some semblance of algorithmic feed in the client that presents the Inbox contents to the end-user, but that is not related to the specification in any way.

zrail 4y ago

I'm sure you could do that but, thus far, it seems like algorithmic feeds are rejected wholesale by the fediverse communities.

doener 4y ago
Yes: "Does Mastodon or the Fediverse use ads or trackers or algorithms or blockchain or cryptocurrency or anything annoying like that? No. There are no ads, no trackers, the timeline shows all posts from everyone you follow in chronological order, and there is no blockchain/cryptocurrency/web3. Fediverse servers connect to each other using traditional sustainable methods that email and websites have used for decades." https://fedi.tips/mastodon-and-the-fediverse-beginners-start-here/ https://fedi.tips/mastodon-and-the-fediverse-beginners-start...
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Yeah, I'm sure the Fediverse doesn't use any "algorithms."
  - _Algernon_ 4y ago
    There is no need to be pedantic. Everyone knows that "algorithm" is synonymous with "recommendation engine" these days.

barbazoo 4y ago

It's funny but I definitely wouldn't have put YT on that list. Even after attempting to "train" it by removing from the feed stuff I'm not interested in, it's still very random and comically irrelevant at times.

lsaferite 4y ago
YT is SO bad. It's not even funny at this point.

rektide 4y ago

This solutionism is kind of a little a lot problematic. Expecting a single pat answer that utterly projects & reduces all possible wins into a single minded "this is how it will work" confines imagination & potential (just by the pointed ask alone), reduces a complex place we can keep exploring & winning & growing, into an overbearing consumerist expectation that all answers are known, all is worked out, and that there is some total answer thats gonna drop in our laps. Synthetic feeds of recommendations is an open topic. How much data one is willing to send upstream, as inputs to one's recommender engine, is as much of a topic as how such things would work, what kind of activitypub feeds the engine would emit. Right now there's nearly nothing & (while I dont agree) a vast amount of the userbase considers this lack to be a feature: a distinguishing characteristic that makes this network human and not aggressively eye-ball stealing machine & greedy. Human connection & old fashioned following people you run into is a win for organic matter & innate connection over pre-programmed ways to insure more eyeball-time. That philosophy battle aside: there's infinite possibilities here. The way the question is phrased expects there is a singular clear way. You probably should not sign up for a fediverse instance! You dont seem like a fit.

whimsicalism 4y ago
You seem to be shadowboxing a non-existent opponent. If anything, their reference to service*s* suggests that they do not expect a singular clear way.
- rektide 4y ago
  > already services out there the last slurp in a ton of activitypub feed data this posting was from the enemy seeking an evil reductionist desire deeply in opposition to what this world wants (self definition) and you are ungenerous & unmoderate in unwillingness to meet part way here. bad things here from bad intent! be warned. this is a vile path. i still think some room should be allowed or explored. i still found the original ask to be incredibly solutionistic & consumeristic in gross ways. there was zero interest in enjoining the effort at all; it expected, without involving.

kornhole 4y ago

Centralized algorithms for feeds are generally rejected by the community so far. Some projects such as Mastodon provide users the ability define filters of their raw chronological feed. People can also use and follow hashtags.

mariusor 4y ago

In ActivityPub "feeds" are not really a thing. A "feed" is the content of an Actor's Inbox and it will contain all the Activities that have been received by that Actor in chronological order. That being said, you can overlay some semblance of algorithmic feed in the client that presents the Inbox contents to the end-user, but that is not related to the specification in any way.