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I’m curious to see a source that says the modern CCP states that democracy cannot succeed in general. The CCP stance is that democracy wouldn’t work for China.

I’m curious to see a source that says the modern CCP states that democracy cannot succeed in general. The CCP stance is that democracy wouldn’t work for China. Whether that’s actually true or not is debatable of course. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-politics-xi-idUSBREA3107S20140402 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-politics-xi-idUSBRE...

GauntletWizard 4y ago
Their stance relies mostly on the same tired canards that India disproves; that an uneducated populace, rural areas, etc are hindrances. They are, but they're not ones that Communism/Authoritarianism solves - And India has some authoritarian properties, too. The 2016 Indian banknote demonetisation is perfect example of how a somewhat democratic state can pull off large scale action that China refutes as a possibility. Was it pretty? Was it effective? Who knows. What matters in this argument is that it's the kind of corruption fighting mechanism that China likes to cite as the domain of their heavenly mandate and not possible for democracies. Again, China can keep yelling that their way is the only way for China, but there does need to be a little more supporting basis than that.
- scarmig 4y ago
  > Again, China can keep yelling that their way is the only way for China, but there does need to be a little more supporting basis than that. Says who? Running a society is hard. You can't simply compare the reality against a hypothetical guaranteed better outcome that would happen under democracy, even ignoring the claim (at best contentious) that India has done better than China for the last couple decades. An equally a propos comparison would be the Soviet Union and its attempt at a transition to democracy. Life spans and material wellbeing collapsed, and even their political system ultimately backslid, to something as bad as the USSR. You can say that they just did democracy wrong--which they certainly did--but that doesn't solve the core issue that getting democracy right is a really hard problem. If the CCP had committed to democratic reforms under Deng, maybe it would have worked out better; but it also might have created turmoil and mass death, as attempts at democracy did in the USSR. And if the latter happened, rubbernecking Westerners would just say "well China did democracy wrong"; democracy never fails, it can only be failed. It's easy to call for from afar, but when your society's well-being is on the line, it's a much scarier risk to take for abstract benefits.
rippercushions 4y ago
The official CCP stance is that China is democratic. Here's the literal party line: Democracy is a common value of humanity and an ideal that has always been cherished by the Communist Party of China and the Chinese people. http://www.news.cn/english/2021-12/05/c_1310352606.htm http://www.news.cn/english/2021-12/05/c_1310352606.htm
- endisneigh 4y ago
  Yes, that’s what Xi says in my link as well, but most westerners do not consider single party democracy to be legitimate.
  - ausudhz 4y ago
    Ya, so they just need to add another party to be considered as such

GauntletWizard 4y ago

Their stance relies mostly on the same tired canards that India disproves; that an uneducated populace, rural areas, etc are hindrances. They are, but they're not ones that Communism/Authoritarianism solves - And India has some authoritarian properties, too. The 2016 Indian banknote demonetisation is perfect example of how a somewhat democratic state can pull off large scale action that China refutes as a possibility. Was it pretty? Was it effective? Who knows. What matters in this argument is that it's the kind of corruption fighting mechanism that China likes to cite as the domain of their heavenly mandate and not possible for democracies. Again, China can keep yelling that their way is the only way for China, but there does need to be a little more supporting basis than that.

scarmig 4y ago
> Again, China can keep yelling that their way is the only way for China, but there does need to be a little more supporting basis than that. Says who? Running a society is hard. You can't simply compare the reality against a hypothetical guaranteed better outcome that would happen under democracy, even ignoring the claim (at best contentious) that India has done better than China for the last couple decades. An equally a propos comparison would be the Soviet Union and its attempt at a transition to democracy. Life spans and material wellbeing collapsed, and even their political system ultimately backslid, to something as bad as the USSR. You can say that they just did democracy wrong--which they certainly did--but that doesn't solve the core issue that getting democracy right is a really hard problem. If the CCP had committed to democratic reforms under Deng, maybe it would have worked out better; but it also might have created turmoil and mass death, as attempts at democracy did in the USSR. And if the latter happened, rubbernecking Westerners would just say "well China did democracy wrong"; democracy never fails, it can only be failed. It's easy to call for from afar, but when your society's well-being is on the line, it's a much scarier risk to take for abstract benefits.

rippercushions 4y ago

The official CCP stance is that China is democratic. Here's the literal party line: Democracy is a common value of humanity and an ideal that has always been cherished by the Communist Party of China and the Chinese people. http://www.news.cn/english/2021-12/05/c_1310352606.htm http://www.news.cn/english/2021-12/05/c_1310352606.htm

endisneigh 4y ago
Yes, that’s what Xi says in my link as well, but most westerners do not consider single party democracy to be legitimate.
- ausudhz 4y ago
  Ya, so they just need to add another party to be considered as such