3 ms·

Because China is the number one threat to democracy and the US. They also are responsible for stealing hundreds of billions of dollars of IP from the US every

by m4jor 4y ago

Because China is the number one threat to democracy and the US. They also are responsible for stealing hundreds of billions of dollars of IP from the US every single year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_property_theft_by_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_pr... And masters at stealing R&D and tech from US companies for their own use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_spy_cases_in_the_United_States_of_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_spy_cases_in_t... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinese-hackers-took-trillions-in-intellectual-property-from-about-30-multinational-companies/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinese-hackers-took-trillions-...

paxys 4y ago
USA is the number one threat to democracy in the USA. There's no point continuing to blame China, Russia or whoever else for domestic problems.
- m4jor 4y ago
  Nation-state hackers from Russia and China are certainly running active campaigns in US elections to disrupt or manipulate them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/17/chinese-hackers-are-scanning-state-political-party-headquarters-fbi-says/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/17/chinese-h... Best evidence of this is the previous 2020 elections.
  - paxys 4y ago
    And the USA is doing the same to other countries. It is a given that this happens, and will continue to happen. You measure how strong a democracy is by how well they can resist such campaigns. If some random Russian bots can trigger a coup in the strongest and richest country in the world then, well, that's on us.
    - e-clinton 4y ago
      “the US is doing the same to other countries” Source? “If some random Russian not can trigger a coup” It’s still an act of aggression regardless of whether the US is equipped to deal with it. While I agree that the US does lots of shitty things, we have way more checks and balances than our key enemies. For one, it is the people who elect those who represent us.
      - vetinari 4y ago
        > “the US is doing the same to other countries” > Source? Not even hiding it: https://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html https://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.htm...
      - zmaurelius 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... I think it would be naive to think similar programs are not being enacted in the present day.
        aylmao 4y ago
        John Bolton has been directly involved with foreign policy at least since he first worked at the State Department (the department responsible for the USAs foreign policy and relations) in 1989. He has openly been a an advocate for military action and regime change by the US in several countries[1]. Recently he also openly mentioned his role in helping plan coups d'etat in an interview, when asked about the events on January 6th that followed the 2020 election: "As somebody who has helped plan coups d'etat— not here but you know (in) other places— it takes a lot of work." [2] Also, tragically enough, he in fact served as the 25th United States Ambassador to the United Nations. Just a reminder, when listing its principles, the first point of the UN's foundational charter reads: "The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members." The USA counting a self-proclaimed "coup planner" as their ambassador to the UN can give us an idea of how fundamental interfering (ie, "hacking") other nation's affairs is to their foreign policy, and how little it respects the sovereignty of nations. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bolton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bolton [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRvMJDTrL2E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRvMJDTrL2E [3]: https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2.shtml https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2.shtml
  - 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
    We literally elected people that are telling us our elections are rigged. Even if Russia and China orchestrated it, we're stupid enough to eat it up. "Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders." - George Carlin
  - coding123 4y ago
    Maybe your solution is to set up a firewall and block any articles written out there that gets the wrong people elected.
  - largepeepee 4y ago
    Sure they are, which countries aren't interested in the most powerful country that constantly exports their problems.(our debt is YOUR problem) But the coverage is probably outsized to their actual impact compared to the hundreds of billions spent by the local monopolies trying to influence the elections themselves. Trump ignoring his personal issues for a moment, has shown with his rise and fall, just how much of the media are just working together - I have never seen all of them including interestingly enough CNBC and Fox constantly dismissing the same candidate in unison for months towards to 2016 election. Add the tech monopolies into the mix for 2020 and it was another eye opener.
    - chiefalchemist 4y ago
      > with his rise and fall, Not being daft, but what fall? Sure the non-Right media wants to paint him as a has-been, but that's revisionist history, and wishful thinking. Key fact: Trump in losing received more votes than Obama in either of BO's victory. Yet Obama is generally painted as popular and love, and Trump a nothing? I'm not a fan of DT but a false hope in a false narrative is an opportunity for him to exploit.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    CIA Officer Frank Snepp Discusses Planting Stories in Vietnam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwerBZG83YM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwerBZG83YM
  - socialdemocrat 4y ago
    That sucks, but the US lacks moral authority to point fingers as the US has such long history of manipulating elections all over the world, overthrowing democratic leaders. The US even actively spied on European citizens through PRISM at a scale never done by either China or Russia. When Snowden exposed the US, it just shrugged “everybody spies on everybody”. Okay, if so, then why complain about Chinese spying? They are just doing what the US is even more guilty of. As a westerner I would love to see the US stop embarrassing us in front of autocrats.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
helij 4y ago
Please, please know your history[0] before speaking. [0]https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-europe https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-eur...
socialdemocrat 4y ago
I don’t like the CCP, but in practice the US conservative movement is probably the biggest threat to democracy in the West today. They are spreading the idea that elections need not be respected and spread conspiracy theories people are eating up all over the world. For instance when we started getting problems with vaccination of people in Norway it was not due to China but fake news and conspiracies pushed by the radical conservative movement in the US. The US holds a special position in advancing and protecting democracy, but is itself turning into a liability. China is a concern but first priority has to be to fix American democracy before it drags the whole West into the mud.
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  I wouldn’t say the conservative movement as a whole, but the MAGA folks currently ascendant in the Republican Party are certainly a threat.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> threat to democracy > billions of dollars of IP I like how your make claims about important societal issues, but the evidence provided is all about money.

by m4jor 4y ago

paxys 4y ago

USA is the number one threat to democracy in the USA. There's no point continuing to blame China, Russia or whoever else for domestic problems.

m4jor 4y ago
Nation-state hackers from Russia and China are certainly running active campaigns in US elections to disrupt or manipulate them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/17/chinese-hackers-are-scanning-state-political-party-headquarters-fbi-says/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/17/chinese-h... Best evidence of this is the previous 2020 elections.
- paxys 4y ago
  And the USA is doing the same to other countries. It is a given that this happens, and will continue to happen. You measure how strong a democracy is by how well they can resist such campaigns. If some random Russian bots can trigger a coup in the strongest and richest country in the world then, well, that's on us.
  - e-clinton 4y ago
    “the US is doing the same to other countries” Source? “If some random Russian not can trigger a coup” It’s still an act of aggression regardless of whether the US is equipped to deal with it. While I agree that the US does lots of shitty things, we have way more checks and balances than our key enemies. For one, it is the people who elect those who represent us.
    - vetinari 4y ago
      > “the US is doing the same to other countries” > Source? Not even hiding it: https://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html https://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.htm...
    - zmaurelius 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... I think it would be naive to think similar programs are not being enacted in the present day.
      - aylmao 4y ago
        John Bolton has been directly involved with foreign policy at least since he first worked at the State Department (the department responsible for the USAs foreign policy and relations) in 1989. He has openly been a an advocate for military action and regime change by the US in several countries[1]. Recently he also openly mentioned his role in helping plan coups d'etat in an interview, when asked about the events on January 6th that followed the 2020 election: "As somebody who has helped plan coups d'etat— not here but you know (in) other places— it takes a lot of work." [2] Also, tragically enough, he in fact served as the 25th United States Ambassador to the United Nations. Just a reminder, when listing its principles, the first point of the UN's foundational charter reads: "The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members." The USA counting a self-proclaimed "coup planner" as their ambassador to the UN can give us an idea of how fundamental interfering (ie, "hacking") other nation's affairs is to their foreign policy, and how little it respects the sovereignty of nations. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bolton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bolton [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRvMJDTrL2E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRvMJDTrL2E [3]: https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2.shtml https://legal.un.org/repertory/art2.shtml
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  We literally elected people that are telling us our elections are rigged. Even if Russia and China orchestrated it, we're stupid enough to eat it up. "Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders." - George Carlin
- coding123 4y ago
  Maybe your solution is to set up a firewall and block any articles written out there that gets the wrong people elected.
- largepeepee 4y ago
  Sure they are, which countries aren't interested in the most powerful country that constantly exports their problems.(our debt is YOUR problem) But the coverage is probably outsized to their actual impact compared to the hundreds of billions spent by the local monopolies trying to influence the elections themselves. Trump ignoring his personal issues for a moment, has shown with his rise and fall, just how much of the media are just working together - I have never seen all of them including interestingly enough CNBC and Fox constantly dismissing the same candidate in unison for months towards to 2016 election. Add the tech monopolies into the mix for 2020 and it was another eye opener.
  - chiefalchemist 4y ago
    > with his rise and fall, Not being daft, but what fall? Sure the non-Right media wants to paint him as a has-been, but that's revisionist history, and wishful thinking. Key fact: Trump in losing received more votes than Obama in either of BO's victory. Yet Obama is generally painted as popular and love, and Trump a nothing? I'm not a fan of DT but a false hope in a false narrative is an opportunity for him to exploit.
- latchkey 4y ago
  CIA Officer Frank Snepp Discusses Planting Stories in Vietnam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwerBZG83YM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwerBZG83YM
- socialdemocrat 4y ago
  That sucks, but the US lacks moral authority to point fingers as the US has such long history of manipulating elections all over the world, overthrowing democratic leaders. The US even actively spied on European citizens through PRISM at a scale never done by either China or Russia. When Snowden exposed the US, it just shrugged “everybody spies on everybody”. Okay, if so, then why complain about Chinese spying? They are just doing what the US is even more guilty of. As a westerner I would love to see the US stop embarrassing us in front of autocrats.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

helij 4y ago

Please, please know your history[0] before speaking. [0]https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-europe https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-eur...

socialdemocrat 4y ago

I don’t like the CCP, but in practice the US conservative movement is probably the biggest threat to democracy in the West today. They are spreading the idea that elections need not be respected and spread conspiracy theories people are eating up all over the world. For instance when we started getting problems with vaccination of people in Norway it was not due to China but fake news and conspiracies pushed by the radical conservative movement in the US. The US holds a special position in advancing and protecting democracy, but is itself turning into a liability. China is a concern but first priority has to be to fix American democracy before it drags the whole West into the mud.

amanaplanacanal 4y ago
I wouldn’t say the conservative movement as a whole, but the MAGA folks currently ascendant in the Republican Party are certainly a threat.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> threat to democracy > billions of dollars of IP I like how your make claims about important societal issues, but the evidence provided is all about money.