4 ms·

Venezuela was 2 years ago.

by drcongo 4y ago

colinmhayes 4y ago
Any prefered sources on what the CIA did in venezuela 2 years ago?
asveikau 4y ago
The situation in Venezuela is much more complicated than "US bad, Maduro good, Guaidó = USA".
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Was it? I don't think it was.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - asveikau 4y ago
    In the mid 2000s I thought Chavez was OK (democratically elected after all) and the criticism was mostly Bush Administration bullshit. I don't want to presume too much of you. Do you speak Spanish? Because what changed my mind about that wave of leaders was listening to them speak unfiltered in Spanish. They came across to me as not having any idea what they're doing. The ideas sound good on the surface (power to the people!) but they are corrupt, incompetent, narcissistic bullshitters. Like your sibling comment says, their inadequate leadership was for some time covered up by the high price of oil. When oil prices fluctuate, they have problems. They blame all their internal problems on the United States. Many Americans (right wingers on the right, tankies on the left) mix up US politics with all this, or in the case of the left, believe this last point about how every internal problem is somehow caused by the devilish US, glorifying chavismo as some kind of "enemy of my enemy" thing; I myself was guilty of this last point in the past. But Chavistas don't need any help from the US in achieving poor outcomes. They do it themselves. They do have popular support in their country. So does Vladimir Putin. So did Hitler. It just goes to show that it's OK to personally disagree with the will of voters in other countries. That is quite a bit different from a coup.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Venezuela imports most of their food. When their crummy oil lost its market they were soon bankrupt. Their oil-supported socialist government did nothing, and their economy collapsed. These things are all larger than some individual actor.

Venezuela was 2 years ago.

colinmhayes 4y ago

Any prefered sources on what the CIA did in venezuela 2 years ago?

asveikau 4y ago

The situation in Venezuela is much more complicated than "US bad, Maduro good, Guaidó = USA".

pessimizer 4y ago
Was it? I don't think it was.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- asveikau 4y ago
  In the mid 2000s I thought Chavez was OK (democratically elected after all) and the criticism was mostly Bush Administration bullshit. I don't want to presume too much of you. Do you speak Spanish? Because what changed my mind about that wave of leaders was listening to them speak unfiltered in Spanish. They came across to me as not having any idea what they're doing. The ideas sound good on the surface (power to the people!) but they are corrupt, incompetent, narcissistic bullshitters. Like your sibling comment says, their inadequate leadership was for some time covered up by the high price of oil. When oil prices fluctuate, they have problems. They blame all their internal problems on the United States. Many Americans (right wingers on the right, tankies on the left) mix up US politics with all this, or in the case of the left, believe this last point about how every internal problem is somehow caused by the devilish US, glorifying chavismo as some kind of "enemy of my enemy" thing; I myself was guilty of this last point in the past. But Chavistas don't need any help from the US in achieving poor outcomes. They do it themselves. They do have popular support in their country. So does Vladimir Putin. So did Hitler. It just goes to show that it's OK to personally disagree with the will of voters in other countries. That is quite a bit different from a coup.
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Venezuela imports most of their food. When their crummy oil lost its market they were soon bankrupt. Their oil-supported socialist government did nothing, and their economy collapsed. These things are all larger than some individual actor.