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Slightly OT: Massive layoffs are happening for some companies, but the market is still extraordinarily great and it's currently incredibly easy to get a better

by jupp0r 4y ago

Slightly OT: Massive layoffs are happening for some companies, but the market is still extraordinarily great and it's currently incredibly easy to get a better job than you had when you were laid off. As long as the general environment doesn't tip over into higher unemployment, I wouldn't worry about this too much (but still make plans just in case).

ravenstine 4y ago
Is it really? The market looks a lot different from when I started nearly 10 years ago. Burnout has become a more frequent topic among developers. Things in tech are generally less optimistic. Recruiters are not nearly as rabid. The hiring process treats even recommended senior engineers as if they have no experience but have plenty of time to sacrifice on take-home assignments. Salaries haven't kept up with inflation or the increase in complexity seen in most modern code bases. Even those with a long CV are likely to spend 4+ months applying and interviewing, which is no less time than it took for them to get their first job. Many companies have cut back on food, parties, and other benefits in favor of glorified gift cards. Everyone's mileage will vary, but it seems to me the only thing that is still "extraordinarily great" is the low barrier to entry we maintain. The market right now comparatively not nearly as great as when I started. I think we need to be honest to each other and not just repeat that tech is a bull market.
- granshaw 4y ago
  Yeah don’t know what parent is on about. Esp if you were richly compensated through RSUs, I think it’s very hard to find that again in this environment
  - jupp0r 4y ago
    Data point 1: US unemployment at 3.7% is at a record low. Data point 2: Part of my job is hiring mid or senior engineers on the west coast (or remote) with good salary/rsu/compensation packages (not quite FAANG level but not far off) and it's incredibly hard to find people and get them to sign when they have lots of competing offers.
    - granshaw 4y ago
      What total annual comp are you all offering for say a promising senior Eng in the west coast with 5 yrs experience, if you don’t mind sharing?
- moralestapia 4y ago
  Yeah, I also noticed this trend. Salaries and comp. are much lower as well, for instance, I see now that a very large amount of offers come with no equity (yes, even early-stage startups), when even one year ago all offers had a complementary equity or stock package.
ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
I think the pay right now is alot lower.
scarface74 4y ago
How is the market great? Amazon just announced a hiring freeze. Google had some layoffs. Meta saw a 70% drop in market value. I don’t keep up with Microsoft as a whole. But they just announced the same “headwinds” in their cloud division as AWS. Apple seems to be the only large tech company not experiencing systemic issues aside from the China lockdowns.

by jupp0r 4y ago

ravenstine 4y ago

Is it really? The market looks a lot different from when I started nearly 10 years ago. Burnout has become a more frequent topic among developers. Things in tech are generally less optimistic. Recruiters are not nearly as rabid. The hiring process treats even recommended senior engineers as if they have no experience but have plenty of time to sacrifice on take-home assignments. Salaries haven't kept up with inflation or the increase in complexity seen in most modern code bases. Even those with a long CV are likely to spend 4+ months applying and interviewing, which is no less time than it took for them to get their first job. Many companies have cut back on food, parties, and other benefits in favor of glorified gift cards. Everyone's mileage will vary, but it seems to me the only thing that is still "extraordinarily great" is the low barrier to entry we maintain. The market right now comparatively not nearly as great as when I started. I think we need to be honest to each other and not just repeat that tech is a bull market.

granshaw 4y ago
Yeah don’t know what parent is on about. Esp if you were richly compensated through RSUs, I think it’s very hard to find that again in this environment
- jupp0r 4y ago
  Data point 1: US unemployment at 3.7% is at a record low. Data point 2: Part of my job is hiring mid or senior engineers on the west coast (or remote) with good salary/rsu/compensation packages (not quite FAANG level but not far off) and it's incredibly hard to find people and get them to sign when they have lots of competing offers.
  - granshaw 4y ago
    What total annual comp are you all offering for say a promising senior Eng in the west coast with 5 yrs experience, if you don’t mind sharing?
moralestapia 4y ago
Yeah, I also noticed this trend. Salaries and comp. are much lower as well, for instance, I see now that a very large amount of offers come with no equity (yes, even early-stage startups), when even one year ago all offers had a complementary equity or stock package.

ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago

I think the pay right now is alot lower.

scarface74 4y ago

How is the market great? Amazon just announced a hiring freeze. Google had some layoffs. Meta saw a 70% drop in market value. I don’t keep up with Microsoft as a whole. But they just announced the same “headwinds” in their cloud division as AWS. Apple seems to be the only large tech company not experiencing systemic issues aside from the China lockdowns.