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Is there any major power not trying to influence other countries' elections? The US CIA has done this, much more directly and brazenly, in South America for de

by cwkoss 4y ago

Is there any major power not trying to influence other countries' elections? The US CIA has done this, much more directly and brazenly, in South America for decades. Kind of funny when Americans act like buff shirtless Bernie memes are worse than organizing and funding coups

anonym29 4y ago
Don't forget Iran!
asveikau 4y ago
Salvador Allende was nearly 50 years ago. I think the US does a lot less of this now. IMO The Iraq War was the last colossal bullshit thing to date. Many Americans (self included) were against it and we're a few presidents removed from that shitty decision. Around the time of the invasion, Putin cited it as something that excuses his current behavior. But saying the US did something years ago does not justify one's own bullshit.
- drcongo 4y ago
  Venezuela was 2 years ago.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    Any prefered sources on what the CIA did in venezuela 2 years ago?
  - asveikau 4y ago
    The situation in Venezuela is much more complicated than "US bad, Maduro good, Guaidó = USA".
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      Was it? I don't think it was.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - asveikau 4y ago
        In the mid 2000s I thought Chavez was OK (democratically elected after all) and the criticism was mostly Bush Administration bullshit. I don't want to presume too much of you. Do you speak Spanish? Because what changed my mind about that wave of leaders was listening to them speak unfiltered in Spanish. They came across to me as not having any idea what they're doing. The ideas sound good on the surface (power to the people!) but they are corrupt, incompetent, narcissistic bullshitters. Like your sibling comment says, their inadequate leadership was for some time covered up by the high price of oil. When oil prices fluctuate, they have problems. They blame all their internal problems on the United States. Many Americans (right wingers on the right, tankies on the left) mix up US politics with all this, or in the case of the left, believe this last point about how every internal problem is somehow caused by the devilish US, glorifying chavismo as some kind of "enemy of my enemy" thing; I myself was guilty of this last point in the past. But Chavistas don't need any help from the US in achieving poor outcomes. They do it themselves. They do have popular support in their country. So does Vladimir Putin. So did Hitler. It just goes to show that it's OK to personally disagree with the will of voters in other countries. That is quite a bit different from a coup.
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      Venezuela imports most of their food. When their crummy oil lost its market they were soon bankrupt. Their oil-supported socialist government did nothing, and their economy collapsed. These things are all larger than some individual actor.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > Salvador Allende was nearly 50 years ago. I think the US does a lot less of this now. Sorry, a guy who reminded me of you called from 1973 and says that there's no evidence that the US was involved in the Allende coup.
- rsj_hn 4y ago
  The reason why you think it happens less often is because the US declassifies its foreign activities after a long delay, at which point we have government admissions of what was done. Until then, we have only media reports that are labelled as conspiracy theories, etc. But US was certainly behind a wave of color revolutions that just happened to occur in many of the former Soviet Republics and just happened to install pro-US governments that adopted anti-Russian policies (when successful). There is a whole book written about it: https://www.routledge.com/The-Colour-Revolutions-in-the-Former-Soviet-Republics-Successes-and-Failures/Beachain-Polese/p/book/9780415625470 https://www.routledge.com/The-Colour-Revolutions-in-the-Form... The US was also behind the "Arab Spring" revolts that spread chaos to the Arab world (but not much democracy), as well as periodically stoking revolts in Iran. For some reason, there are a huge number of well armed foreign men murdering police in Iran in the name of women's rights, when Saudi Arabia or the other gulf states aren't exactly known for women's rights, but strangely have had no similar movements. I wonder why that is. In Southeast Asia, the US is funding violent groups in Myanmar that have been killing school teachers, hospital employees, emergency workers, police, etc in an attempt to overthrow the junta and replace it with a government in exile that is headquartered in Virginia. In Pakistan, the US is funding Baluchi rebels that have been attacking Chinese engineers working on belt and road projects, and recently tried to assassinate the Chinese Ambassador. We overthrew the government of Ukraine twice, in 2004 and 2014, installing a repressive anti-Russian government in its place. We tried to overthrow the government of Kazakhstan and Byelorussia earlier. Etc.
  - asveikau 4y ago
    My father's family came from what is now a post-soviet republic, which you probably do not understand was previously, before unpopular annexation, a pre-soviet republic. You are not going to convince me with pro Putin horse shit. There are plenty of post-soviet republics, Ukraine included, who are favorable to NATO and not due to a US conspiracy. Many of these were brutally oppressed not just by the Soviet Union but the Russian Empire, and a lot of those conflicts predate the existence of the United States.
    - rsj_hn 4y ago
KptMarchewa 4y ago
Vietnam, country that was engaged in deathly war with US is happy to maintain decent relationship with USA. Meanwhile, nearly every country occupied by soviet union is doing everything to help Ukraine who is fighting this way more deathly war.

by cwkoss 4y ago

anonym29 4y ago

Don't forget Iran!

asveikau 4y ago

Salvador Allende was nearly 50 years ago. I think the US does a lot less of this now. IMO The Iraq War was the last colossal bullshit thing to date. Many Americans (self included) were against it and we're a few presidents removed from that shitty decision. Around the time of the invasion, Putin cited it as something that excuses his current behavior. But saying the US did something years ago does not justify one's own bullshit.

drcongo 4y ago
Venezuela was 2 years ago.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  Any prefered sources on what the CIA did in venezuela 2 years ago?
- asveikau 4y ago
  The situation in Venezuela is much more complicated than "US bad, Maduro good, Guaidó = USA".
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Was it? I don't think it was.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - asveikau 4y ago
      In the mid 2000s I thought Chavez was OK (democratically elected after all) and the criticism was mostly Bush Administration bullshit. I don't want to presume too much of you. Do you speak Spanish? Because what changed my mind about that wave of leaders was listening to them speak unfiltered in Spanish. They came across to me as not having any idea what they're doing. The ideas sound good on the surface (power to the people!) but they are corrupt, incompetent, narcissistic bullshitters. Like your sibling comment says, their inadequate leadership was for some time covered up by the high price of oil. When oil prices fluctuate, they have problems. They blame all their internal problems on the United States. Many Americans (right wingers on the right, tankies on the left) mix up US politics with all this, or in the case of the left, believe this last point about how every internal problem is somehow caused by the devilish US, glorifying chavismo as some kind of "enemy of my enemy" thing; I myself was guilty of this last point in the past. But Chavistas don't need any help from the US in achieving poor outcomes. They do it themselves. They do have popular support in their country. So does Vladimir Putin. So did Hitler. It just goes to show that it's OK to personally disagree with the will of voters in other countries. That is quite a bit different from a coup.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    Venezuela imports most of their food. When their crummy oil lost its market they were soon bankrupt. Their oil-supported socialist government did nothing, and their economy collapsed. These things are all larger than some individual actor.
pessimizer 4y ago
> Salvador Allende was nearly 50 years ago. I think the US does a lot less of this now. Sorry, a guy who reminded me of you called from 1973 and says that there's no evidence that the US was involved in the Allende coup.
rsj_hn 4y ago
The reason why you think it happens less often is because the US declassifies its foreign activities after a long delay, at which point we have government admissions of what was done. Until then, we have only media reports that are labelled as conspiracy theories, etc. But US was certainly behind a wave of color revolutions that just happened to occur in many of the former Soviet Republics and just happened to install pro-US governments that adopted anti-Russian policies (when successful). There is a whole book written about it: https://www.routledge.com/The-Colour-Revolutions-in-the-Former-Soviet-Republics-Successes-and-Failures/Beachain-Polese/p/book/9780415625470 https://www.routledge.com/The-Colour-Revolutions-in-the-Form... The US was also behind the "Arab Spring" revolts that spread chaos to the Arab world (but not much democracy), as well as periodically stoking revolts in Iran. For some reason, there are a huge number of well armed foreign men murdering police in Iran in the name of women's rights, when Saudi Arabia or the other gulf states aren't exactly known for women's rights, but strangely have had no similar movements. I wonder why that is. In Southeast Asia, the US is funding violent groups in Myanmar that have been killing school teachers, hospital employees, emergency workers, police, etc in an attempt to overthrow the junta and replace it with a government in exile that is headquartered in Virginia. In Pakistan, the US is funding Baluchi rebels that have been attacking Chinese engineers working on belt and road projects, and recently tried to assassinate the Chinese Ambassador. We overthrew the government of Ukraine twice, in 2004 and 2014, installing a repressive anti-Russian government in its place. We tried to overthrow the government of Kazakhstan and Byelorussia earlier. Etc.
- asveikau 4y ago
  My father's family came from what is now a post-soviet republic, which you probably do not understand was previously, before unpopular annexation, a pre-soviet republic. You are not going to convince me with pro Putin horse shit. There are plenty of post-soviet republics, Ukraine included, who are favorable to NATO and not due to a US conspiracy. Many of these were brutally oppressed not just by the Soviet Union but the Russian Empire, and a lot of those conflicts predate the existence of the United States.
  - rsj_hn 4y ago

KptMarchewa 4y ago

Vietnam, country that was engaged in deathly war with US is happy to maintain decent relationship with USA. Meanwhile, nearly every country occupied by soviet union is doing everything to help Ukraine who is fighting this way more deathly war.