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> You can't even install Windows 11 without a Microsoft account (so they obviously have a way to identify you). Actually you can, just don't connect to the Int

> You can't even install Windows 11 without a Microsoft account (so they obviously have a way to identify you). Actually you can, just don't connect to the Internet during your initial setup. The fact that remaining anonymous requires this trick is 100% a dark pattern on MSFT's part. While we're at it: to avoid being forced to fill in the "security questions" during set up, the trick is keep your password blank during set up (add it after set up is done). I recently set up Windows and it requires SO many workarounds to keep your privacy. I recommend setting up OOSU10 before even connecting to the Internet to avoid the Telemetry and Windows sneakily installing helper apps related to your hardware (and I don't mean Drivers) without your consent or knowledge.

noasaservice 4y ago
Or Linux. Most users would have a perfectly fine time with Linux. Most things just work these days. Hell, with WINE or Proton/Steam, even Windows stuff works - even this year's games.
- rmellow 4y ago
  I've tried, really. The recurring pattern with Linux is that: - Trivial things don't always work out of the box - Even after spending considerable time on the command line to fix it, things break semi-frequently I've had setups that I've loved in the past, only to have it fail for some silly reason. i.e. too many kernels have been installed because of updates and suddenly /boot has no more space. I have a job to do, and sysadmining my laptop is not it.
  - sophacles 4y ago
    > I recently set up Windows and it requires SO many workarounds to keep your privacy. I recommend setting up OOSU10 before even connecting to the Internet to avoid the Telemetry and Windows sneakily installing helper apps related to your hardware (and I don't mean Drivers) without your consent or knowledge. Seems an awful lot like > sysadmining my laptop Perhaps you meant to say "learning a new system involves a lot of mental effort". I get that sentiment and don't even disagree (the first quote is a part of what keeps me away from windows I don't want to sysadmin my windows install because I don't want to learn it). I find switching to a different system (e.g. windows) makes everything feel hard because I have enough experience dealing with the little issues. With linux things that the stuff you declared "too much" is a 60-90s blip in my day due to familiarity, not a huge time-sink or rabbit hole. That familiarity means not just "I know what buttons to press" but also "I know where to look to know what buttons", "Consequences of pressing those buttons", "what are the red herrings when I go looking something up". It's a different system with different patterns, thought models designed in, etc. Not that different from say, knowing C and trying to pick up an ML as a second languge - it's not that the patterns are bad or the language "isn't there", it's hard because it's a bunch of different concepts than you're brain is currently patterned for.
    - rmellow 4y ago
      Actually I came back to Windows after a 11 year hiatus switching between MacOS/Linux, but I admit I didn't express myself clearly. Yes, both require lots of initial setup and both break sometimes. My anecdata is that Windows breaks less frequently and it's rarely something as blocking as "I can't boot" or "I lost my GUI".
callahad 4y ago
> Actually you can, just don't connect to the Internet during your initial setup. That stopped working in Windows 11's 22H2 update. Now you have to either modify your ISO with Rufus, or pop a shell (Shift-F10) and run OOBE\BYPASSNRO to get around the account requirement.

noasaservice 4y ago

Or Linux. Most users would have a perfectly fine time with Linux. Most things just work these days. Hell, with WINE or Proton/Steam, even Windows stuff works - even this year's games.

rmellow 4y ago
I've tried, really. The recurring pattern with Linux is that: - Trivial things don't always work out of the box - Even after spending considerable time on the command line to fix it, things break semi-frequently I've had setups that I've loved in the past, only to have it fail for some silly reason. i.e. too many kernels have been installed because of updates and suddenly /boot has no more space. I have a job to do, and sysadmining my laptop is not it.
- sophacles 4y ago
  > I recently set up Windows and it requires SO many workarounds to keep your privacy. I recommend setting up OOSU10 before even connecting to the Internet to avoid the Telemetry and Windows sneakily installing helper apps related to your hardware (and I don't mean Drivers) without your consent or knowledge. Seems an awful lot like > sysadmining my laptop Perhaps you meant to say "learning a new system involves a lot of mental effort". I get that sentiment and don't even disagree (the first quote is a part of what keeps me away from windows I don't want to sysadmin my windows install because I don't want to learn it). I find switching to a different system (e.g. windows) makes everything feel hard because I have enough experience dealing with the little issues. With linux things that the stuff you declared "too much" is a 60-90s blip in my day due to familiarity, not a huge time-sink or rabbit hole. That familiarity means not just "I know what buttons to press" but also "I know where to look to know what buttons", "Consequences of pressing those buttons", "what are the red herrings when I go looking something up". It's a different system with different patterns, thought models designed in, etc. Not that different from say, knowing C and trying to pick up an ML as a second languge - it's not that the patterns are bad or the language "isn't there", it's hard because it's a bunch of different concepts than you're brain is currently patterned for.
  - rmellow 4y ago
    Actually I came back to Windows after a 11 year hiatus switching between MacOS/Linux, but I admit I didn't express myself clearly. Yes, both require lots of initial setup and both break sometimes. My anecdata is that Windows breaks less frequently and it's rarely something as blocking as "I can't boot" or "I lost my GUI".

callahad 4y ago

> Actually you can, just don't connect to the Internet during your initial setup. That stopped working in Windows 11's 22H2 update. Now you have to either modify your ISO with Rufus, or pop a shell (Shift-F10) and run OOBE\BYPASSNRO to get around the account requirement.