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Dummies don't take muscles or weight distribution into account. They're metal skeletons with rubber bodies over them. This is one of those discrimination situ

by treis 4y ago

Dummies don't take muscles or weight distribution into account. They're metal skeletons with rubber bodies over them. This is one of those discrimination situations where the truth is actually the exact opposite of what is reported. The dummies tested are 4'11 95 pounds and 5'9" 171 pounds. If the extremes pass then it's likely everyone in between is fine. The people who aren't covered are those above 5'9" or 171 pounds which skews heavily male.

watwut 4y ago
The dummy in video seems to be way closer to woman then just size. For example, it has breasts. Those matter for seat belt position. So yeah, it seems that dummy is more then just smaller. But honestly, dont see issue. Men are loosing nothing in this. Male dummies will continue to be used too.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  The dummy's breasts don't seem to move in the video despite the impacts, I think they're probably made out of steel, or a very stiff rubber. I doubt they accurately simulate real breasts, I think they're on the dummy to convey femaleness.
  - watwut 4y ago
    They don't need to move much. The issue I noticed is that when my breasts grew, some safety belts went through throat (previously did not). They push the belt to the side.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      In a collision that rends a metal car frame, I think all flesh would move. Crash test dummies don't simulate this aspect of collisions.
- NegativeLatency 4y ago
  It’s entirely possible this will make cars safer for everyone
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  > But honestly, dont see issue. Men are loosing nothing in this. Male dummies will continue to be used too. You're right of course, but I think the deeper issue is that crash dummies and tests are designed just for the "average" and that many people fall outside of this "average". As a 2 metre tall bloke I've sat in many cars where the head rest just doesn't raise high enough for example, which always struck me as a fairly serious but also easily fixable shortcoming. So the thing is that the issue of female crash dummies is a special case of the wider "crash tests should represent a wide range of people". Of course women of various shapes and sizes should be included in that, but also men of various shapes and sizes. By focusing so strongly on only specific groups (women in this case), I think sometimes these larger issues get kind of lost, even though the specific focus isn't really a bad thing in itself. e.g. stuff like "well, we included women now, which is what you wanted, so job done!" ... well, no...
  - magicalist 4y ago
    > By focusing so strongly on only specific groups (women in this case), I think sometimes these larger issues get kind of lost, even though the specific focus isn't really a bad thing in itself You can suggest testing a wider distribution of crash dummy types without also inventing a scenario in which this article somehow prevents that from happening.
  - klipt 4y ago
    It's funny that on average women already live 5 years longer than men, but every "gender equity" initiative seems more interested in increasing that gap than decreasing it.
    - watwut 4y ago
      There are actually people working on various causes of that - attempts to lower incarceration rates, initiatives for safety practices in work help men more then women. Initiatives against smoking and alcoholism make male lifespan larger. Less guns in society would actually lead to less men dead. One problem is that tackling easy causes of male deaths is met with complains about making men softer or feminizing them.
- treis 4y ago
  As someone 4 inches taller and uh... let's go with significantly heavier than 171 pounds I feel like I'm losing. I certainly wonder what would happen in a crash when I'm riding with my knees jammed against the dashboard. And weight is obviously important and it's rather concerning that I'm stressing the safety system past what it was tested against.
- adamweld 4y ago
  The existing NHTSA female dummies have breasts as well. See: https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies Presumably the difference here is around weight distribution and other limb length and size proportions. Still I think "First Female Crash Dummy" is a stretch.

by treis 4y ago

watwut 4y ago

The dummy in video seems to be way closer to woman then just size. For example, it has breasts. Those matter for seat belt position. So yeah, it seems that dummy is more then just smaller. But honestly, dont see issue. Men are loosing nothing in this. Male dummies will continue to be used too.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
The dummy's breasts don't seem to move in the video despite the impacts, I think they're probably made out of steel, or a very stiff rubber. I doubt they accurately simulate real breasts, I think they're on the dummy to convey femaleness.
- watwut 4y ago
  They don't need to move much. The issue I noticed is that when my breasts grew, some safety belts went through throat (previously did not). They push the belt to the side.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    In a collision that rends a metal car frame, I think all flesh would move. Crash test dummies don't simulate this aspect of collisions.
NegativeLatency 4y ago
It’s entirely possible this will make cars safer for everyone
Beltalowda 4y ago
> But honestly, dont see issue. Men are loosing nothing in this. Male dummies will continue to be used too. You're right of course, but I think the deeper issue is that crash dummies and tests are designed just for the "average" and that many people fall outside of this "average". As a 2 metre tall bloke I've sat in many cars where the head rest just doesn't raise high enough for example, which always struck me as a fairly serious but also easily fixable shortcoming. So the thing is that the issue of female crash dummies is a special case of the wider "crash tests should represent a wide range of people". Of course women of various shapes and sizes should be included in that, but also men of various shapes and sizes. By focusing so strongly on only specific groups (women in this case), I think sometimes these larger issues get kind of lost, even though the specific focus isn't really a bad thing in itself. e.g. stuff like "well, we included women now, which is what you wanted, so job done!" ... well, no...
- magicalist 4y ago
  > By focusing so strongly on only specific groups (women in this case), I think sometimes these larger issues get kind of lost, even though the specific focus isn't really a bad thing in itself You can suggest testing a wider distribution of crash dummy types without also inventing a scenario in which this article somehow prevents that from happening.
- klipt 4y ago
  It's funny that on average women already live 5 years longer than men, but every "gender equity" initiative seems more interested in increasing that gap than decreasing it.
  - watwut 4y ago
    There are actually people working on various causes of that - attempts to lower incarceration rates, initiatives for safety practices in work help men more then women. Initiatives against smoking and alcoholism make male lifespan larger. Less guns in society would actually lead to less men dead. One problem is that tackling easy causes of male deaths is met with complains about making men softer or feminizing them.
treis 4y ago
As someone 4 inches taller and uh... let's go with significantly heavier than 171 pounds I feel like I'm losing. I certainly wonder what would happen in a crash when I'm riding with my knees jammed against the dashboard. And weight is obviously important and it's rather concerning that I'm stressing the safety system past what it was tested against.
adamweld 4y ago
The existing NHTSA female dummies have breasts as well. See: https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies Presumably the difference here is around weight distribution and other limb length and size proportions. Still I think "First Female Crash Dummy" is a stretch.