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> The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you. If you want to use Designer, select Turn on. https://support.mic

> The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you. If you want to use Designer, select Turn on. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/53c77d7b-dc40-45c2-b684-81415eac0617 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/53c77d7b-dc40-45c2... Considering it has to be explicitly enabled and includes a privacy policy, I’m going to say it’s “blatantly obvious” to the user.

i_am_proteus 4y ago
I am genuinely curious as to why the MacOS version says "The first time you try out Designer, it asks your permission to get design ideas for you." and the Windows version says "The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you." Can Microsoft use some other setting in Windows as justification for bypassing the permission step?
- jaywalk 4y ago
  Maybe there's a Group Policy setting that can automatically enable it?
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
Funny, I would have read that page and said that it was blatantly not obvious what was going on except that the privacy policy call out was a red flag. I wouldn't have thought anything of it needing to be enabled, lots of features are things that you might not want enabled by default. And having a privacy policy is definitely a red flag but it still doesn't say "we're going to send the content of your slides to Microsoft for processing". In short, I pretty strongly disagree. I think that if you had a hundred users look at that page or click through enabling the feature, and then asked afterwards how many of them thought that the feature was going to send their slides to Microsoft, at least 50 of them would be very surprised.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  That is a help page guiding the user on how to use the feature. Of course it’s going to be “hidden” when turning on the feature is the smallest step to using it. If to use the feature you are explicitly asked to turn it on, with an option to view a privacy policy, that is “blatantly obvious”. It isn’t hidden or buried under a dozen other settings when you install PowerPoint, it’s done at time of use. How, exactly, would you want it to be more obvious? A big red box every time the feature is mentioned in the help site? Be realistic here; in terms of user consent this is perfectly fine.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    > If to use the feature you are explicitly asked to turn it on, with an option to view a privacy policy, that is “blatantly obvious”. I disagree. > How, exactly, would you want it to be more obvious? A big red box every time the feature is mentioned in the help site? Yes, more or less. I would be perfectly happy with a single red box at the top that says this feature sends the contents of your slide to Microsoft. I am not okay with linking to a privacy policy that nobody's going to read and pretending that that's informed consent.
    - kenjackson 4y ago
      > Yes, more or less. I would be perfectly happy with a single red box at the top that says this feature sends the contents of your slide to Microsoft. As a user I'd like the ability to opt-in/out of this. I much prefer a privacy policy that captures all of it for the app. Otherwise, I have red boxes showing up non-stop using most apps. Can you imagine the sheer number of red boxes you'd get for Netflix the first few times you use it!
      - JadeNB 4y ago
        > As a user I'd like the ability to opt-in/out of this. I much prefer a privacy policy that captures all of it for the app. Otherwise, I have red boxes showing up non-stop using most apps. Can you imagine the sheer number of red boxes you'd get for Netflix the first few times you use it! Of course it's impractical in today's environment, but I think we'd be in a much better place if we'd established early on the idea that a piece of software that massively violates your privacy (which is to say, all of them, nowadays) comes laden with a terrifying number of red boxes when you read its privacy policy.
planede 4y ago
> The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you. I don't know the wording for the dialog itself, so I will comment on this wording instead. Asking permission to "get design ideas for you" is absolutely wrong. They are asking permission for the wrong thing. They should be asking permission to "collect content from your slides". They can then explain that the upside is that in return you get access to design ideas. Depending on the context of the dialog an appropriate wording would be something along the lines of this: "In order to access design ideas, up-to-date slide contents need to be regularly sent to Microsoft servers. <Agree> <Cancel>". edit: - Would you like some chocolate sprinkles with that ice cream? - Sure! - Cool, <while sprinkling chocolate on your ice cream> it will cost $100 and your left kidney.
pannSun 4y ago
> it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you. > get We're not worried about get, but about send. Funny how they managed to omit the most worrisome term from their permission dialogue, huh?
reitanqild 4y ago
> to get design ideas for you. This statement asks for permission to fetch data, not to upload my data. Uploading data based on this statement is a blantant violation of customer expectations, so obvious you don't need to be neither a ux expert nor a lawyer to see it, you just need to read carefully.

i_am_proteus 4y ago

I am genuinely curious as to why the MacOS version says "The first time you try out Designer, it asks your permission to get design ideas for you." and the Windows version says "The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you." Can Microsoft use some other setting in Windows as justification for bypassing the permission step?

jaywalk 4y ago
Maybe there's a Group Policy setting that can automatically enable it?

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

Funny, I would have read that page and said that it was blatantly not obvious what was going on except that the privacy policy call out was a red flag. I wouldn't have thought anything of it needing to be enabled, lots of features are things that you might not want enabled by default. And having a privacy policy is definitely a red flag but it still doesn't say "we're going to send the content of your slides to Microsoft for processing". In short, I pretty strongly disagree. I think that if you had a hundred users look at that page or click through enabling the feature, and then asked afterwards how many of them thought that the feature was going to send their slides to Microsoft, at least 50 of them would be very surprised.

mynameisvlad 4y ago
That is a help page guiding the user on how to use the feature. Of course it’s going to be “hidden” when turning on the feature is the smallest step to using it. If to use the feature you are explicitly asked to turn it on, with an option to view a privacy policy, that is “blatantly obvious”. It isn’t hidden or buried under a dozen other settings when you install PowerPoint, it’s done at time of use. How, exactly, would you want it to be more obvious? A big red box every time the feature is mentioned in the help site? Be realistic here; in terms of user consent this is perfectly fine.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  > If to use the feature you are explicitly asked to turn it on, with an option to view a privacy policy, that is “blatantly obvious”. I disagree. > How, exactly, would you want it to be more obvious? A big red box every time the feature is mentioned in the help site? Yes, more or less. I would be perfectly happy with a single red box at the top that says this feature sends the contents of your slide to Microsoft. I am not okay with linking to a privacy policy that nobody's going to read and pretending that that's informed consent.
  - kenjackson 4y ago
    > Yes, more or less. I would be perfectly happy with a single red box at the top that says this feature sends the contents of your slide to Microsoft. As a user I'd like the ability to opt-in/out of this. I much prefer a privacy policy that captures all of it for the app. Otherwise, I have red boxes showing up non-stop using most apps. Can you imagine the sheer number of red boxes you'd get for Netflix the first few times you use it!
    - JadeNB 4y ago
      > As a user I'd like the ability to opt-in/out of this. I much prefer a privacy policy that captures all of it for the app. Otherwise, I have red boxes showing up non-stop using most apps. Can you imagine the sheer number of red boxes you'd get for Netflix the first few times you use it! Of course it's impractical in today's environment, but I think we'd be in a much better place if we'd established early on the idea that a piece of software that massively violates your privacy (which is to say, all of them, nowadays) comes laden with a terrifying number of red boxes when you read its privacy policy.

planede 4y ago

> The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you. I don't know the wording for the dialog itself, so I will comment on this wording instead. Asking permission to "get design ideas for you" is absolutely wrong. They are asking permission for the wrong thing. They should be asking permission to "collect content from your slides". They can then explain that the upside is that in return you get access to design ideas. Depending on the context of the dialog an appropriate wording would be something along the lines of this: "In order to access design ideas, up-to-date slide contents need to be regularly sent to Microsoft servers. <Agree> <Cancel>". edit: - Would you like some chocolate sprinkles with that ice cream? - Sure! - Cool, <while sprinkling chocolate on your ice cream> it will cost $100 and your left kidney.

pannSun 4y ago

> it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you. > get We're not worried about get, but about send. Funny how they managed to omit the most worrisome term from their permission dialogue, huh?

reitanqild 4y ago

> to get design ideas for you. This statement asks for permission to fetch data, not to upload my data. Uploading data based on this statement is a blantant violation of customer expectations, so obvious you don't need to be neither a ux expert nor a lawyer to see it, you just need to read carefully.