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PowerPoint has a feature where it uses machine learning to suggest layout and design changes for your content. This feature most likely can be turned off, but o

PowerPoint has a feature where it uses machine learning to suggest layout and design changes for your content. This feature most likely can be turned off, but of course it needs some data on what's on your slide to suggest changes. I hope this submission is flagged and removed. Just because you don't like Microsoft doesn't mean such misrepresentation is okay.

pjc50 4y ago
So you agree that Microsoft sends the content of your Powerpoint slides (and, by extension, all DoD powerpoint slides, since they're notorious users of the application) to Microsoft?
- dislikedtom2 4y ago
  It's implied that he does not agree since he claims that the claim is misrepresentation.
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  > and, by extension, all DoD powerpoint slides, since they're notorious users of the application This is a pretty huge exaggeration here. Closed rooms exists and are used when appropriate. And just because something is enabled in the consumer version by default does not imply it's enabled and available in enterprise settings. Last time I dug through the office GPO templates - basically every phone home feature was easily disabled on an org level if desired. Further - what do you think something like Google Slides is doing with your data? It's ALL stored on Google's servers by default.
NikolaNovak 4y ago
Right; when I saw title I assumed Designer was going to be the context. I've also observed that Designer only works when I'm online, so I figured out that it uses external servers to generate suggestions. I suppose it could/should be more obvious/explicit on the Designer pane itself, something like "This is an online feature that uses Microsoft's servers to generate recommendations", or a more user-friendly language. Note however that the article is light on details; does it send a full content of slides? Some hash of text and images? A non-identifiable abstraction of layers involved? This could be done well or poorly. (I don't think the submission should be flagged FWIW, but I agree that it's not of good enough quality to deserve great ranking; but that's of course subjective:)
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
I don't really care that it has a feature that's the reason they're sending data off to Microsoft, I care that they're sending data off to Microsoft and it's not blatantly obvious to the user.
- Pasorrijer 4y ago
  When you turn on the feature it is VERY specific that it sends the data to external servers. There's a disclaimer and everything, right in front of the user. Now, is it a glaring red pop-up? No. But IT department's can also choose to disable the feature if they don't want their company to use it.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  > The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you. If you want to use Designer, select Turn on. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/53c77d7b-dc40-45c2-b684-81415eac0617 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/53c77d7b-dc40-45c2... Considering it has to be explicitly enabled and includes a privacy policy, I’m going to say it’s “blatantly obvious” to the user.
  - i_am_proteus 4y ago
    I am genuinely curious as to why the MacOS version says "The first time you try out Designer, it asks your permission to get design ideas for you." and the Windows version says "The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you." Can Microsoft use some other setting in Windows as justification for bypassing the permission step?
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      Maybe there's a Group Policy setting that can automatically enable it?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    Funny, I would have read that page and said that it was blatantly not obvious what was going on except that the privacy policy call out was a red flag. I wouldn't have thought anything of it needing to be enabled, lots of features are things that you might not want enabled by default. And having a privacy policy is definitely a red flag but it still doesn't say "we're going to send the content of your slides to Microsoft for processing". In short, I pretty strongly disagree. I think that if you had a hundred users look at that page or click through enabling the feature, and then asked afterwards how many of them thought that the feature was going to send their slides to Microsoft, at least 50 of them would be very surprised.
dagurp 4y ago
What's the misrepresentation? They pointed out that Microsoft is sending your data and you're not disputing that.
- noselasd 4y ago
  I don't think he implied that your data gets sent out. We don't really know yet if your data/powerpoint content is sent to Microsoft, or if Powerpoint just goes out and looks for layouts, fonts, etc. without communicating any of your text.
Justin_K 4y ago
This shouldn't be software behavior by default. Why should it be flagged?
- Someone1234 4y ago
  The article has a low signal-to-noise ratio. It is just a single paragraph claim that doesn't delve into anything nor inform its audience of anything. Why shouldn't it be flagged? If this claim was posted as a HN comment without citation or further explanation it would likely get flagged, why are submissions held to a LOWER standard?
  - rcarmo 4y ago
    The entire blog is this one post, so that signal-to-noise ratio is... a singularity by now.
  - mymyairduster 4y ago
    Yeah..
- dhruvdh 4y ago
  This is not default behavior, it lets you choose to enable this feature the first time you open the Design tab.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
discretion22 4y ago
> I hope this submission is flagged and removed. Just because you don't like Microsoft doesn't mean such misrepresentation is okay. I don't think we know the motivation of the submitter and we should not assume any motivation beyond introducing the link to the community to consider and discuss the content. The article is very brief and seems to highlight that the designer suggestion needs to submit your slide content to make the suggestion. The question as to whether we consented suggests that we have (through the usual click through), but, to me, it is really asking something like 'do we understand the implications of our decision to consent?'. I don't see anything being misrepresented nor do I infer there is some sort of anti-Microsoft (nor anti-anyone/anything) in the article. It does seem to suggest there is something for people to consider in that we often 'consent' without really thinking through the outcomes of what is supposed to be our willing, informed consent. Too often we split into binary extremes when we should really take time to be thoughtful and considerate of questions being posed and where that consideration takes us and helps us to find insights and opportunities to improve ourselves. I encourage people to not automatically jump to our 'team position' (whatever that is).
- dhruvdh 4y ago
  It does not highlight that the designer suggestion needs to submit your slide content. "Designer" is the name of a tab on PowerPoint.
rcarmo 4y ago
"Automatically show me design ideas" is a pretty visible option in Preferences (looking at my Mac here, can check Windows later, but I remember turning that off on my new laptop since I just never _use_ the suggestions and they came up when I was traveling and on slow Wi-Fi). I also believe it can be managed by policy. MS FTE here, I have no direct awareness of how the feature works and am not affiiliated with Office - but I'm sad that something meant to _help_ people (if this raises hackles, I don't want to see what the OP says about the accessibility checks) is used to bludgeon my colleagues publicly.
- pavon 4y ago
  If that is the feature in question, neither the app itself, nor the online help shown when clicking "About PowerPoint Designer" give any indication that your slide contents data will be sent to MS.
  - rcarmo 4y ago
    Have you actually used the thing? Again, I'm an MS FTE and not privy to the internals, but it gives you _layouts_ with your local text filled in. It's a visual template suggestion engine, it doesn't _need_ your text to work.
throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pjc50 4y ago

So you agree that Microsoft sends the content of your Powerpoint slides (and, by extension, all DoD powerpoint slides, since they're notorious users of the application) to Microsoft?

dislikedtom2 4y ago
It's implied that he does not agree since he claims that the claim is misrepresentation.
horsawlarway 4y ago
> and, by extension, all DoD powerpoint slides, since they're notorious users of the application This is a pretty huge exaggeration here. Closed rooms exists and are used when appropriate. And just because something is enabled in the consumer version by default does not imply it's enabled and available in enterprise settings. Last time I dug through the office GPO templates - basically every phone home feature was easily disabled on an org level if desired. Further - what do you think something like Google Slides is doing with your data? It's ALL stored on Google's servers by default.

NikolaNovak 4y ago

Right; when I saw title I assumed Designer was going to be the context. I've also observed that Designer only works when I'm online, so I figured out that it uses external servers to generate suggestions. I suppose it could/should be more obvious/explicit on the Designer pane itself, something like "This is an online feature that uses Microsoft's servers to generate recommendations", or a more user-friendly language. Note however that the article is light on details; does it send a full content of slides? Some hash of text and images? A non-identifiable abstraction of layers involved? This could be done well or poorly. (I don't think the submission should be flagged FWIW, but I agree that it's not of good enough quality to deserve great ranking; but that's of course subjective:)

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

I don't really care that it has a feature that's the reason they're sending data off to Microsoft, I care that they're sending data off to Microsoft and it's not blatantly obvious to the user.

Pasorrijer 4y ago
When you turn on the feature it is VERY specific that it sends the data to external servers. There's a disclaimer and everything, right in front of the user. Now, is it a glaring red pop-up? No. But IT department's can also choose to disable the feature if they don't want their company to use it.
mynameisvlad 4y ago
> The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you. If you want to use Designer, select Turn on. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/53c77d7b-dc40-45c2-b684-81415eac0617 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/53c77d7b-dc40-45c2... Considering it has to be explicitly enabled and includes a privacy policy, I’m going to say it’s “blatantly obvious” to the user.
- i_am_proteus 4y ago
  I am genuinely curious as to why the MacOS version says "The first time you try out Designer, it asks your permission to get design ideas for you." and the Windows version says "The first time you try out Designer, it may ask your permission to get design ideas for you." Can Microsoft use some other setting in Windows as justification for bypassing the permission step?
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    Maybe there's a Group Policy setting that can automatically enable it?
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  Funny, I would have read that page and said that it was blatantly not obvious what was going on except that the privacy policy call out was a red flag. I wouldn't have thought anything of it needing to be enabled, lots of features are things that you might not want enabled by default. And having a privacy policy is definitely a red flag but it still doesn't say "we're going to send the content of your slides to Microsoft for processing". In short, I pretty strongly disagree. I think that if you had a hundred users look at that page or click through enabling the feature, and then asked afterwards how many of them thought that the feature was going to send their slides to Microsoft, at least 50 of them would be very surprised.

dagurp 4y ago

What's the misrepresentation? They pointed out that Microsoft is sending your data and you're not disputing that.

noselasd 4y ago
I don't think he implied that your data gets sent out. We don't really know yet if your data/powerpoint content is sent to Microsoft, or if Powerpoint just goes out and looks for layouts, fonts, etc. without communicating any of your text.

Justin_K 4y ago

This shouldn't be software behavior by default. Why should it be flagged?

Someone1234 4y ago
The article has a low signal-to-noise ratio. It is just a single paragraph claim that doesn't delve into anything nor inform its audience of anything. Why shouldn't it be flagged? If this claim was posted as a HN comment without citation or further explanation it would likely get flagged, why are submissions held to a LOWER standard?
- rcarmo 4y ago
  The entire blog is this one post, so that signal-to-noise ratio is... a singularity by now.
- mymyairduster 4y ago
  Yeah..
dhruvdh 4y ago
This is not default behavior, it lets you choose to enable this feature the first time you open the Design tab.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

discretion22 4y ago

> I hope this submission is flagged and removed. Just because you don't like Microsoft doesn't mean such misrepresentation is okay. I don't think we know the motivation of the submitter and we should not assume any motivation beyond introducing the link to the community to consider and discuss the content. The article is very brief and seems to highlight that the designer suggestion needs to submit your slide content to make the suggestion. The question as to whether we consented suggests that we have (through the usual click through), but, to me, it is really asking something like 'do we understand the implications of our decision to consent?'. I don't see anything being misrepresented nor do I infer there is some sort of anti-Microsoft (nor anti-anyone/anything) in the article. It does seem to suggest there is something for people to consider in that we often 'consent' without really thinking through the outcomes of what is supposed to be our willing, informed consent. Too often we split into binary extremes when we should really take time to be thoughtful and considerate of questions being posed and where that consideration takes us and helps us to find insights and opportunities to improve ourselves. I encourage people to not automatically jump to our 'team position' (whatever that is).

dhruvdh 4y ago
It does not highlight that the designer suggestion needs to submit your slide content. "Designer" is the name of a tab on PowerPoint.

rcarmo 4y ago

"Automatically show me design ideas" is a pretty visible option in Preferences (looking at my Mac here, can check Windows later, but I remember turning that off on my new laptop since I just never _use_ the suggestions and they came up when I was traveling and on slow Wi-Fi). I also believe it can be managed by policy. MS FTE here, I have no direct awareness of how the feature works and am not affiiliated with Office - but I'm sad that something meant to _help_ people (if this raises hackles, I don't want to see what the OP says about the accessibility checks) is used to bludgeon my colleagues publicly.

pavon 4y ago
If that is the feature in question, neither the app itself, nor the online help shown when clicking "About PowerPoint Designer" give any indication that your slide contents data will be sent to MS.
- rcarmo 4y ago
  Have you actually used the thing? Again, I'm an MS FTE and not privy to the internals, but it gives you _layouts_ with your local text filled in. It's a visual template suggestion engine, it doesn't _need_ your text to work.

throwaway0x7E6 4y ago

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html